Current school and new schools contacting each other

[drspouse]

I have posted in SEN about this but this is a bit more of a general issue.

Our DS is in Y2 and his current school are saying they can't meet his needs. We're just waiting for the outcome of the EHCP panel but we are sure they are going to approve 1:1 (he currently has this) and then it's a case of what else we think he needs that we may need to appeal for.

Current school are pushing us to look at special schools so they can get rid. We think he could manage a smaller mainstream school (currently things like playground noise, noisy classrooms next to each other etc. are a struggle for him).

We rang one smaller mainstream school that was recommended to us by a carer who knows the local schools. Instead of ringing us back, the other school rang his current school (and didn't ring us back).

We are not sure if we can do anything about this. We wanted to contact smaller mainstream schools once we have his EHCP confirmed. But what can we do to prevent his current school from talking to them (and them from talking to his current school)?

Do we HAVE to tell other schools where he is currently? Are they allowed to talk to other schools about him?

Sometimes half the problems can be caused by the school.

Having worked in a lot of schools, I would be very surprised that they just want to 'get rid' of a child because they're struggling to meet their needs. Of course you know your child better than anybody else, but you lack a point of comparison of your child to others in an educational setting. Schools (particularly large primaries!) have come across every pupil imaginable. Please don't think that if they recommend he goes elsewhere it's because it's doing them a favour. They will be thinking entirely of what is best for him.

I am a specialist advisory teacher and we under strict instructions to gain consent from parents before we discuss a child's needs with other professionals.

When a child moves from our preschool caseload into reception we have a form parents must sign allowing us to visit them in school and pass on relevant info. Not that parents ever decline as it's in the child's best interest for staff to be informed but the choice is there. I think it is GDPR rules that govern this.

You must be feeling very upset by not currently having a school to meet your sons needs. Whether or not they have followed procedure is largely irrelevant as the second school will need to speak to the first before agree to take your son. The second school could be quite reluctant if you come across as aggressive and a problem parent to deal with.

I would go take a tour and see for yourself if that school really would be any different. Try to focus on why you think the second school would be a good fit rather than talking about how the first school have failed, even if they have.

You say the first school think your son has conditions you don't believe he does. Have you been referred for an ADOS? I'd be pushing to get it done before the summer is out and so you are able to better target what your son needs.

You say that your current school told you the other head phoned them but did they disclose what was discussed? Did your school tell you that they told the other school they wouldn't be able to meet needs and he needed a SS? If not, it's hard to prove that anything was said. The current head might have said nothing at all for all anyone knows. It's obviously not the right place for your son either way if they don't return phone calls etc.

Be wary of small primary schools. We were in a similar predicament and visited 7 small primary schools hoping they would be a better fit. All were small for a reason - physically small spaces with the maximum number of children for the space, minimal support staff, no breakout/nuture spaces for 1:1 work out the class, minimal outdoor space etc. They all looked horrified when we discussed our sons needs and were very open that they don't have the resources to support SEND like schools use to. I'm glad they were honest. Ds is going to a special school now that isn't ideal but better than continual failure and segregation in mainstream.

School think he has ASD but his psychiatrist doesn't. I think the psychiatrist might know better.
The stuff he's doing with us at home is way more than he can do at school. They can only say what they see but on this they are basing their long term estimation of his abilities.
ASF don't fund things in school.
We didn't give any kind of permission for the other school to talk to anyone.

Have the school had him assessed for ASD? Has your psychologist observed him at school? They are 2 very different environments. School cannot say he is doing things which he isn't doing.

In the kindest possible way, things students do at home are often over estimated by parents because they don't realise the "help" they are giving.

Is the EHC plan still at the draft stage? Do get it checked independently, SOS!SEN and Education Equality both provide this service for a small fee and IME well worth it. My daughter's was rewritten on their advice.

The LEA will only make changes based on what is in the professional reports from the EP, SALT, Physio and OT. but should insert comments like 'Mother reports..' if you disagree. You need the plan to be as robust as possible to access the support your son will need.

Try and keep an open mind when visiting special schools, also although a school may be officially MLD or SLD there will be pupils there with a whole range of needs. My own child attended a MLD non-maintained special school in a neighbouring LEA and was probably the least able pupil but it was still the best fit for her and could provide the speech therapy she needed.

IME once the school are saying they can't meet the child's needs you really need to move, they will be very unlikely to implement any addition support/strategies.

A small school is considered to be one form entry.
Most schools are trying to fill their schools to maximise their income. I.e 30 in a class.
Schools that aren't full are either very rural or losing pupils because the school has issues.

Vety small schools are likely to mixed year groups to get the ratio of children to teacher up to 30. Some round here have 3 mixed years with one teacher. They are also likely to be very financially stretched and are unlikely to really be able to fully cater to what you are saying you want in terms of cover.
In my area most schools cant afford to fund a TA unless they have an EHCP (and even then they cant afford it.,)

I know you've said you are on principle against special schools and mainstream schools can do wonderful things. Just be really careful that you are really putting your son's needs first.
My sister has a grown adult child with a ld. She was a teacher. She was determined he would stay in mainstream with his brother and that everything would be alright. I wont go onto details but it was the worst thing possible. It didnt meet either his educational or social needs. He is now in his mid 30s and bounces from one crisis to another.

dermy nobody doing an ADOS observes in school. School can't arrange an ASD assessment. It's a medical diagnosis.
I give him way less help than school does. His main problem at school is refusal.
vjg it went to panel yesterday. We commented on it. School and the LEA are saying things like "we can't put OT in section F". I spoke to IPSEA and set them straight in my comments.
theworld We are looking at schools that have 20 children in R/Y1/Y2, and experience of SEN. Taking local advice on that. His EHCP has 1:1 written in.

@drspouse I've had Ed psychs in my room observing pupils for diagnosis! I've also had to fill in plenty of forms in advance of, and following their visits. Ultimately the diagnosis is medical but they take evidence from a variety of places.

It's CAMHS only here and never done at school, only by a medical professional and only in clinic.

They only go into schools here at the schools request and expense and it’s for advice/support guidance, not diagnosis.

And the psychiatrist says he wouldn't get a diagnosis when we mentioned what school says and, as I say, I don't think school are qualified to comment.

The school certainly aren't qualified to make an ASD diagnosis , they can only comment on what they see in the school setting and report on that. Presumably you think they are lieing? In my LA, an ASD diagnosis can only be made by a paediatrician, it's not an ED Psych role. Different authorities have different ADOS pathways. But all SHOULD take advice/reports/comments into account from a variety of professionals. Some of these reports will agree with each other, some will disagree. It is the paediatrician ( in my LA) who makes the final decision.

No one professional or otherwise can comment on whether someone will or won't get a diagnosis until the full assessment process is completed in full and the assessors discuss the results and reach an agreement. Any professional stating someone will or won't get a diagnosis is unprofessional.

I don't think school understand that children with ADHD also have social problems and sensory needs. They see these and think ASD. The psychiatrist knows more about ADHD.

I think the psychiatrist might know better.

It's CAMHS only here

I have very little faith in CAMHS sadly. I wouldn’t rely solely on them.

I don't think school are qualified to comment.

Neither are CAMHS some of the time. Makes me very annoyed when children suffer because of this.

But it doesn't matter what they think, they should report what they see not what they think causes it! The decision as to diagnosis is then made by others ( be it paediatrician or Ed Psych or whoever in your LA!) So are they lieing about what they see?

The school shouldn't be commenting on the diagnosis or what they think the diagnosis should be. They should be providing factual information about the child. A lot of the time this comes in the form of a questionnaire for staff with closed responses.

I wanted my son to stay in mainstream and pushed for it longer then I should have. Towards the end of his time at mainstream he had 2-1 and became very unhappy and totally refused to do any work.
He's now at a special school and absolutely loves it! It's nothing at all like I was expecting 😀 some of the classes are log cabins in the woods they're rewarded for good behaviour and working well with things like walking the dogs at the local animal Center. In the 4 months he's been there we can see how much he's come on in just maths alone. Explore all options you never know.

No, they don't understand ADHD.
They see he has social difficulties. They are right. They don't know enough to know that all kinds of things cause social difficulties. ADHD, anxiety, attachment problems, speech and language problems. They only think of ASD because they are not psychiatrists.
The psychiatrist is private. But the CAMHS psychiatrists have the same, correct, qualifications. There are lots of different professionals within CAMHS. I'm not quite sure what you're saying, MrsRabbit, that school have correctly diagnosed ASD based on no experience in differential diagnosis, as have you, based on vague information over the internet, but the psychiatrist was wrong?

Why is he seeing a psychiatrist - I would think it's quite unusual for a seven-year-old?

The questionnaires! Pages and pages of tick box questions which I'm sure are designed to trip you up!

mucky this isn't about any particular school.
It's about our child's current school giving out information without asking our permission.