What if anything can I ask the school to do about this?

[SSSandy2]

Ok has been going on a while, my dd is very unhappy at school because of the behaviour of one boy who wanted to be her friend but she doesn't like him. Having experienced him myself I can understand why, he isn't pleasant to her and I don't like him myself.

Told dd to avoid him as much as possible. He doesn't allow dd to play with another girl she was friends with. If they played, he'd drag the other girl away, kick dd and call her names. Told teacher, teacher said that wasn't on and spoke to him. No change.

He tips water in dd's satchel, kicks, hurts, calls her names. Spoke to the teacher. She said she doesn't permit that kind of thing, dd should always tell her if something happens. She made dd tell him she wants him to leave her alone. Nothing changed.

Yesterday at school. He told this girl either she goes up to dd and calls her names or his mother won't buy the girl an icecream after school or take her to the fair. So girl comes up and starts calling dd names too. Dd very hurt and upset by this.

So what can I really expect the school to do about this boy, if anything? They know I want to change schools, that dd hates school now and the teacher has tried talking to him. Is there realistically anything the school can do? He now just waits until no teacher is around before he goes up to dd to say or do something mean.

How old are they?

dd is 6, he is 7. It's their first year at school in Germany

help help

I asked the teacher to call me which she will do but I don't know what to suggest really. Is this just the sort of thing she will have to put up, learn to deal with herself?

German schools don't have anti-bullying schemes as such the way schools in the UK seem to nowadays.

Sorry - no idea about the Garman system.

Is he being punished fo this behaviour or just being told to stop?
If it was me I would expect him to recieve some form of punishment. Also would expect his paents to have been called in to let them know that it is happening so they hopefully can help work on it too.
Does the school have any kind of anti-bullying policy that can be referred to?

I would ask what the school are doing to help the boy who is being unkind, he clearly has problems.

Soy just seen that you say they dont have the anti-bullying schemes that we do.
Still sue they would want to tackle it effectively though, and just asking the boy to stop it ove and over is not going to be effective.
I would be asking what they are doing to try and deter him from this behaviour, and maybe suggest that bullying and effects o bullying are tackled in class with all the children?

As far as I know anti-bullying policies as such don't exist. Beyond being spoken to, he hasn't been punished for it in any way.

The teacher did suggest I call the parents myself but unsure how this will go down. I know the dm told me once her ds never hurts other dc, is sunny, open and friendly and tries to get along with other dc. According to her, it is always the other dc who cause HIM problems IYSWIM. I would rather the school spoke to the family TBH.

thanks for the suggestions. I will have them ready for when she calls!

Seems to me, something has to be done differently but I am not sure what exactly the school can do. I think if he did something directly in view or hearing of the class teacher, she would definitely react but he often picks his moment when no teacher is around or it's the break or at sport or something like that.

How odd that they suggest you do it. Suerly what happens duing schooltime is their responsibility.
I would be very very reluctant to talk to parents myself, expecially if you say they are unlikely to accept what you are saying.
When you speak to the teacher I would say that you expect this boy to recieve some form of punishment for bullying, you expect the school to talk to his parents as what happens in school with a child that isn't yours is not your responsibility!

Good luck

Is it better to speak to the head about that?

Yes I think so definitely. If it's been an ongoing thing and nothing that has been done is working I would definitely go to the head with it.

well this has been going on for a while now and last time I spoke to her and she suggested I call the parents. I told her I didn't think they had any idea their ds acted like this at school and the teacher said, yes I'm sure they have no idea.

Thought then: well why don't YOU tell them then?! But somehow didn't quite dare bring it up.

Actually might be a good idea when you speak to teacher if you ask her for an appointment with both her and the head to go over it all.

yes, that's quite proactive and potentially constructive. I'll see what she says about that.

wish I knew the German word for bullying. Come to think of it, I don't think there is one!

SSS, sorry to hear about this.

In the UK, the course of action would be fairly straightforward: form teacher, deputy head, head, quoting the anti-bullying policy all the way. Obviously it is harder if the child is deliberately doing it while out of the teacher's radar, but would still expect it to be dealt with.

In Germany it's tougher, IME they tend to take a more 'hands-off' approach to sorting out non-scholastic problems. The suggestion that you contact the other parents yourself would never be made in England -- in many schools parents are specifically banned from reprimanding another child. Nonetheless I think you can reasonably expect the school to get more proactive with this, and if you get no joy from the teacher you should go higher up, though many heads in German schools are bureaucrats rather than educators.

Can the school not get this other girl to corroborate what is going on? I think you should request a meeting and carry on as if you assume they have an anti-bullying policy and are merely trying to refine the details of how they propose to implement it. Do you know any friendly Germans whose take on this you could seek? Teachers in other schools, for example, or even someone who might know what the legal or statutory position is?

The German word for bullying is 'mobbing'.

I also think you need to gear yourself up to be quite tough and demanding. You would have been entirely within your rights to ask the teacher why SHE hadn't said this to the other parents. These people are GERMANS. Subtle they are not. You have to Tell It How It Is in big capital letters, and leave them in no doubt as to how you expect them to sort it out, and how unbelievably primitive and backward you think it is that they do not have a written anti-bullying policy. There's no point being on your back foot with German Officialdom (which is what teachers are, in the end); they'll just eat you for breakfast and spit out the pips.

Hi frogs, thanks for that. I know bullying issues aren't a main concern of schools here. I'm sure they don't find it ok but I wonder if they think I'm just being a PITA dm and dd needs to just toughen up?

Dh and I can try and find out if there are legally binding statues for schools in this respect. I really don't think there are though, judging from much more dramatic cases I've read of at secondary schools.

At the moment it is frustrating because nothing is done unless I call and tell them about a specific incident. In which case, the boy is called out of class and spoken to by the teacher and then it happens again. I will ask for a meeting with her and the head but I'm not sure if that's the way things are done here.

OMG not sure I feel up to it frogs.

How about I write an official letter, mentioning that the situation has not improved, simply changed and the problem remains. Request that they discuss this with the boys' parents to be sure that the school and family are working together on resolving the problem, ask what punishments they are using and what strategies they have in place to prevent this continuing in the future?

Is it ok to do it that way round?

That sounds like a sensible course of action, SSSandy. Do you not have tame Germans whose brains you could pick about this? Could you get the parents of the other little girl onside?

The girl's family aren't German but I've tried calling them today, can't get an answer. I will definitely try and speak to them though, ask them to have a word with their dd about things.

If the teacher calls back, I think first I'll speak to her and tell her I'm writing to the head about it and would like a meeting with both of them to discuss it. Poor woman is recently deceased so I don't want to come down too harshly on her personally IYSWIM.