What if anything can I ask the school to do about this?

[SSSandy2]

Ok has been going on a while, my dd is very unhappy at school because of the behaviour of one boy who wanted to be her friend but she doesn't like him. Having experienced him myself I can understand why, he isn't pleasant to her and I don't like him myself.

Told dd to avoid him as much as possible. He doesn't allow dd to play with another girl she was friends with. If they played, he'd drag the other girl away, kick dd and call her names. Told teacher, teacher said that wasn't on and spoke to him. No change.

He tips water in dd's satchel, kicks, hurts, calls her names. Spoke to the teacher. She said she doesn't permit that kind of thing, dd should always tell her if something happens. She made dd tell him she wants him to leave her alone. Nothing changed.

Yesterday at school. He told this girl either she goes up to dd and calls her names or his mother won't buy the girl an icecream after school or take her to the fair. So girl comes up and starts calling dd names too. Dd very hurt and upset by this.

So what can I really expect the school to do about this boy, if anything? They know I want to change schools, that dd hates school now and the teacher has tried talking to him. Is there realistically anything the school can do? He now just waits until no teacher is around before he goes up to dd to say or do something mean.

That all sounds so typical, exactly how I've been treated at our school. The head is probably just seeing the end of term around the corner and can't be bothered or she's strictly not giving appointments because she's signing the reports - still I think you did very well and I would still send that letter if anything a shorter version.
The fact that there is a conflict teacher is also good as you could prepare some info on things like the buddy system or Faust Los (get some ideas from British programmes) and try to get things rolling for the new term.
What did you say to the boy?

Oh Sandy, crap situation Will come back to thread later (urgent demands for 'One Fish, Two Fish...' from ds )

I said in my deepest firm voice, "Alexander I'd like a word with you, come over here please." (And he looked shell-struck but trotted over). So I said something like "you know that it isn't ok to hurt or insult dd, don't you?". He nods. I said, "I'm very angry about it and I've spoken to the school about it and if anything like that ever happens again, I will be coming straight into the school to deal with it. Is that clear?" And he nodded and slid off.

Was it OTT? It was, wasn't it? Bet they're slagging me off like mad in the staffroom but I really don't see why dd just has to put up with it all.

I should have just sent a shorter letter I think. Don't think I achieved anything whatsoever today.

Hi there berolina How is your pregnancy going? Is everything ok?

Yes, I think if you just drop the short version of that letter in the post box (is there one) addressed to the head then it might get to her, sounds as if you won't get it past the secretary if you hand it in.
Atleast you showed your dd that you will stand up for her, it's not as if this has only happened once, you aren't telling him off out of the blue and you needed to do it for your own peace of mind.

actually what really annoyed me, particularly afterwards, was the teacher saying if I felt the boy needed punishing, I should look for another school. And if I felt the school wasn't handling the problem well, why didn't I look for another school. And if I felt unhappy that little was being done to ensure her being left alone in the breaks, I should look for another school.

And then later why didn't I put her in the international school?

And then when I said I wanted to speak to the head about keeping her at home till end of term (need Head's permission for that) and teaching her myself, she said, yes I could do that of course (big smile). Basically that she was just shrugging us off rather than wanting to tackle it.

Maybe I'm being unfair. Dh was waiting for me nervously when I got back from school and said , just take her out, try to de-escalate it now and he said, just looking at me you can see how hard the whole thing is affecting me emotionally.

Don't you just love men. And if he'd gone there, they'd have sent him straight to the head and the whole thing would have been taken very seriously, I bet you anything.

In fact the whole I should look for another school business. WTF?

I will have to clean a bit I think and calm down and then have another go at the letter admylin. Think I'm a bundle of nerves this morning made worse by too much strong coffee!

Not sure whether it would be overkill to send it now. Will wait and see what the teachers say. They will have to call back to tell me whether I have an appointment with the head and/or the Conflict Teacher. I think not though. Our class teacher basically just didn't want to know if you ask me. She said a couple of times she wanted to put off tackling the social problems with this boy until the new term. So should I accept that, take her out and wait and see what the new term brings? Would that be what the Wise Woman would do, do you think?

I think the most important thing you can do for your child is to teach her to stand up for herself. Not with her hands but with her words. Sometimes it helps a child gain confidence if they have an adult with them. I don't know if the school would permit you visit for a day but that would boost you daughters confidence and you could allow your daughter to tell him that she does not like how he treats her. He is unlikely to retaliate with an adult there. You can also encourage your daughter to work on friendships with her classmates outside school. This will make her bond to the other children in the classroom more important than an Ice Cream Cone.

I'm not sure at the moment Leati that the school would welcome me there for a day. My feeling (perhaps unfairly) is that they want to brush it off, keep me at bay. Maybe to be fair to them, I have to now wait and see what they do about the problem, if they do anything different.

If we are still here for the new term, I could ask then whether it would be possible to spend some time at school with dd. I'm not sure it's generally something they do here TBH.

update again: the sec called and said the class teacher spoke to the head and will try to organise a meeting with the conflict teacher (without the head) but it will probably not be before the new school term.

I can not have an appointment with the head

does your school break up on Wednesday too? It isn't long to sort anything out I suppose so maybe they are right in saying it should wait 'til the new term, and then maybe the boy will have 'grown up' abit.
I would still drop a letter off saying that you appreciate the phone calls and offers of help and look forward to arranging a first meeting at the start of term.

Yes I don't think I will do anything else admylin. At the moment I am really very upset. I don't know why, perhaps it is a reaction to the stress or something. I'm just crying all the time.

If something else happened, I don't think I would be able to deal with it tbh so I think I will just keep her home and I don't think I will even contact the school about it, since I discussed that possiblity with the teacher this morning and she said it wouldn't be a problem.

We break up on tuesday at 11am, dc are counting the minutes! It is sad that they aren't happy at school, I also had a great school life and loved every day of it - even had strict old dragon teachers but still loved it.

I attended four different primary schools and I was happy at all of them admylin. But these are different times I guess and I was perhaps more resilient than dd is. My dm was very happy and I expect she transmitted that to us, whereas I imagine I pass on my disatisfaction/unhappiness to dd and that makes her very sensitive.

Well, I've decided to go on the assumption that the school knows what they are doing based on their experience and I will try to trust they are doing the right thing. For now, I think anything else just drags me further down.

You could be right about that, my 2 are also very sensitive and it has got to do with being here - when they are in the UK they are totally different kids because I'm more relaxed and happier too.

Apart from packing up and leaving though, I don't see how we can hide those 'vibes' that our dc are obviously getting. I really do try to be positive in front of them but now even ds comes with some shocking complaints about living here - can he read my mind?

noticed my clothes are falling off me these days and I actually have something approaching a flat tum so I suppose that is one positive side to it all?!

Haven't done A THING today tbh. Have to go and pick dd up in a minute. God I hope nothing went wrong at school today. I absolutely couldn't cope. Hope football isn't cancelled, I can have a natter to other mums there and take my mind off it.

I'm back (One Fish... turned into gefühlte 20 million more books, then washing, cleaning, phone calls...)

I'm doing OK thanks Sandy - have had more bleeding but placenta is, at least theoretically, no longer in the way of a natural labour/birth 10 weeks till EDD!

sympathies to you and dd. The kind of thing you describe is what I'm dreading if (it's quite a big if, tbh) we put dc into the German system I too had noticed that anti-bullying initiatives are rather thin on the ground and it seems to be expected that children 'learn to deal with it'. I've heard/read various comments about being 'in der Schule verhauen' as if it was the most natural thing in the world However, I think there is a creeping awareness - if you can push it on, all the better. dh is a psychologist and has helped with a Schülersozialtraining down south - I'm wondering whether he might be able to help/advise you at all? can you CAT me? or, if you're happy with it, post your email on here and I'll get in touch. ('Bout time we met up anyway).

You know teachers here are bureaucrats, and they prob can't get their heads round doing anything before the new term. I would keep her at home until the hols, and then right at the beginning of next term push for the meeting. They prob won't let you see the head because it seems to them like it would mean not einhalten-ing the Dienstweg.

I think what you said to the boy was fine, tbh. If my child were bullying another I would be devastated, of course, but perfectly happy for the parent to make it very clear that it is Not On.

Sorry you're feeling so worn down.

Hi berolina, hope you have settled in to your new life here in Berlin! I was wondering if you had decided on any alternative to state school already? I know the private alternatives are really expensive and we could cope with 1 going but 2 would be hard and dh seems to be earning about as much as he ever will in his job unless he gets as far as becoming a professor.

Hi there you two. Thanks for listening to my school worries. I know what I think of everything but I don't think other people can make much sense of all those postings of mine tbh.

Glad to hear the pregnancy is going well this time berolina. Are you expecting a girl or a boy, do you know?

Actually I'm no longer feeling so sad about this whole thing but I am very very angry about the school and the reception I received. I don't know what to do constructively with all that anger tbh. The teacher wrote a note in dd's homework book that she has arranged a meeting with the conflict teacher on Monday morning so I will have to take dd in really and will have to attend.

Don't see much point since the boy has the problem and the conflict teacher really needs to meet with him or his parents and the teacher if you ask me. I doubt it will be more pleasant than my talk with the teacher on Friday. I was just fobbed off and it was quite insulting altogether when I look back on it. Not sure what tack I will take or if I will even bother with it. Am thinking I will write a letter of complaint to the head but then again I may jsut not bother with it

berolina frankly I would aim to leave Berlin before your dc become of school age. There may be other parts of West Germany which have very good established independent options. I don't know about that though. Berlin has little in this respect since elitism is frowned on here. There are some new independent schools spouting up but they are not equivalent to schools in the UK at all and there is often some experimental ideology involved which you may or may not take to. I looked about a great deal at the options because I would like to take dd out of the German school system, the options are limited and all flawed from what I saw.

The main problem with the international schools beyond the price (you're looking at around 13,000 Euros p.a. plus uniform, books, afternoon activities etc. is the lack of academic focus/attainment. They are ok for wealthy German families who want their dc to achieve a high level of English or for families staying here for 2-3 years whose company foot the bill and who have no real other option.

You will always meet someone who is happy with a particular school, others who are unhappy with it so decisions can be hard to make. The main problem for me is the ethos and lack of pastoral care in German educational institutions, little emphasis on the way dc should interact. It is largely a free for all from kindergarten on. Looking back, I wish I had never sent dd to a German kindergarten but kept her at home. I sent her there for the German but she would have picked it up anyway. It wasn't on the whole a positive experience and I wouldn't repeat it if I had another dc here. I wouldn't contemplate putting another dc into the German school system at all.

Hi SSSandy - mailed you yesterday but was swamped by end of term stuff the last 2 days.
I cannot believe the school's response FWIW (& for emkana too!) the primary here may not have a published anti-bullying policy but they take it VERY seriously and from the odd incidents in ds2's class, come down hard and fast and involve the parents right away. They encourage the parents to come at once if there are any problems or questions at all. For all I may fault them on other issues, they are insistent on the children learning to respect each other. I know that if anything happened to the boys at school, I'd be taken seriously and the head would be kept informed and would become involved if necessary.
Wow. No wonder you wanted to change schools, but for the teacher to suggest that... words fail.

Re your bad experience of kindergarten, you've had a rotten time.
The kindergarten here is even better at the pastoral side. As I wrote, the school do foster & intervene but have no time to nurture individual children. They have to muddle through as best they can - suits the faster ones only of course. The kiga do nurture each child according to their needs (sounds a bit Marxist ). Better & worse teachers of course but ds1 & dd had/have really good teachers & the guiding rule of the place is the social development first and cognitive stuff second.
Am pretty blown away by what you and your dd been through.
Did you seem I sent you my phone number?

I meant
do foster social skills and intervene if there are problems
and
no time to nurture each child academically

Thanks fink. I am very cut up.

I resent very much her comment that it never crossed her mind to punish him and that if I think he should have been punished for anything he did, this is not the school for me. As if I were some kind of excessive conservatist extremist who advocated spanking dc or something. She was very insulting. Her husband died in April so perhaps she is still very emotional and liable to take offence quickly and more strongly than she would usually do. Actually I am furious about it this morning, not that I achieve anything by that other than having a horrible morning!

Regen am Siebenschläfer! So bad news for summer huh?

look at this Sandy this is what our old school used and it worked wonders, you could maybe take the idea to teh meeting on Monday?