What if anything can I ask the school to do about this?

[SSSandy2]

Ok has been going on a while, my dd is very unhappy at school because of the behaviour of one boy who wanted to be her friend but she doesn't like him. Having experienced him myself I can understand why, he isn't pleasant to her and I don't like him myself.

Told dd to avoid him as much as possible. He doesn't allow dd to play with another girl she was friends with. If they played, he'd drag the other girl away, kick dd and call her names. Told teacher, teacher said that wasn't on and spoke to him. No change.

He tips water in dd's satchel, kicks, hurts, calls her names. Spoke to the teacher. She said she doesn't permit that kind of thing, dd should always tell her if something happens. She made dd tell him she wants him to leave her alone. Nothing changed.

Yesterday at school. He told this girl either she goes up to dd and calls her names or his mother won't buy the girl an icecream after school or take her to the fair. So girl comes up and starts calling dd names too. Dd very hurt and upset by this.

So what can I really expect the school to do about this boy, if anything? They know I want to change schools, that dd hates school now and the teacher has tried talking to him. Is there realistically anything the school can do? He now just waits until no teacher is around before he goes up to dd to say or do something mean.

Stop making excuses about her husband!

Thanks for the email fink. I wasn't sure the email I used worked because I got a delivery failure message so I was suprised to get your reply. I am trying to get my mixed feelings under control a bit tbh. I am really not looking forward to this meeting on Monday. What I expect to happen is that 2 teachers from the school will gang up on me to say more or less what she said on Friday.

Well have to make lunch now and be a bit cheerful for the family. Thanks for listening !

The e-mail may have got delayed cos dh was fiddling around with things.
Take your dh to the meeting! Or a friend. How can they justify what's happened, or explain? Seriously, what line will they take?

Yes, definately take a 'witness' good idea.

I'd come if I lived in Berlin!
Just read the ice cream thing - include stuff like that in your notes, it does show what he does is calculated targeted bullying. Ask them if the Schultraeger (church authority isn't it?) condone this behaviour.
Bottom line is Do Not Back Down. Even if you take dd away from the school you'll want it on paper why.

That's what my friend said who works in schools as a social worker, she said threaten them with going further to the Schulträger or even Schulamt and then they sit up and listen.

Admylin - sorry, didn't mean to ignore you! Am at this.

Hi finknottle, you have all the best ideas about this, you have had some practise before. Better make lunch too, ds got a friend coming round later so I'l be back on if they bahave and busy themselves.

Thanks for asking after me admylin! Sandy - it's a ds2 Am so excited. Went to 2nd hand children's clothes shop this morning (dh and ds are off visiting relatives in BRB, I didn't want to go as would like to be near enough to the Charite at all times just in case) and bought some lovely little stuff including a little knitted top-and-bottoms ensemble

13,000 ? Bang goes that option then! We had idly thought about the British school or a church school, but if you're at one and that's the state of things... We definitely don't want Waldorf, Steiner etc. We may in fact be out of Berlin by the time ds1 hits school age - it will depend on dh's or possibly my job situation (earliest in 3 yrs though, when dh has finished PhD) where we end up. We have a very long-term plan to go back to the UK, but dh needs to get academic experience first and that'll be easiest in Germany. That really is the worry, isn't it, 'the ethos and lack of pastoral care in German educational institutions'. Spot on I saw your other thread and I really think this is a cultural thing rather than a particular educational strategy seitens the teacher. Don't forget there is this very conscious line between 'bilden' and 'erziehen' in German culture (a status thing too ) - I think things are changing alowly, but currently teachers still tend to see their job as Wissensvermittlung rather than Erziehungsaufgaben, which they tend to view as being a kiga thing. Children have their 'childhood' at kiga and then the 'Ernst des Lebens' at school - which I think some teachers interpret as meaning having to toughen up I would come with you on Mon if I weren't working... Make sure you list your concerns very clearly (take a Zettel in) and don't let them interrupt you!

Is it Siebenschläfer today? Good! No offence but it can't be cool and breezy enough for me right now, at least until I have this baby... Am dreading sun and temps in the 30s.

Thankfully no experience of bullying. It was ds1's learning difficulties & then when through ds2 we got caught up in something else. That actually showed me how seriously the school deal with bad behaviour. Because we typed a letter they took it as a formal complaint
I do know that when dealing with schools/institutions, they play hard so you play hard and take it up as high as you can.
Am off too, for some hedge-hacking. After all the rain our garden's v shaggy.

Dh has taken dd to the Vergnügungspark Leipzig today. I couldn't face crowds of people tbh so I am cleaning out the kitchen cupboards today and that kind of thing. It's quite therapeutic. Thankfully we don't have to go house hunting today!

Haven't decided what to do really. Think I might call the secretary, cancel the meeting and explain that I was very unhappy about how the school tackled/didn't tackle the issue and my reception at the school on Friday and as a result, we plan to consult with a lawyer first before deciding how best to proceed with the matter and having any further discussions with the school and that will require some time so dd won't be attending school before that point. Does that sound like I'm chickening out, is it too OTT threatening or does it sound reasonable to you?

Don't worry about schools now too much Berolina, just enjoy your pregnancy and take good care of yourself. Perhaps you could consider JFK (twas a bit too American for my taste but I have consistently heard that it is a good school and it is a modern, light-filled school with good facilities. The approach is American right the way through). You would have to plan to get your dc in on the German ticket, i.e. apply as German speakers. As non-American speakers of English you have practically no chance of being accepted I was told by the elementary school head. If you did want to go down that track, it might be wise to consider the CSA nursery which I think is in Steglitz or Lichterfelde. That is Community Services Association or the JFK one at Rathaus Steglitz. As far as I know, that is the standard way in.

Do you have a name sorted yet?

Morning sandy, can you not try to go to the meeting and see what they say, then you could take dd straight home with you if it isn't constructive sounding and then start threatening with further action although it's all going to be on hold now that the holidays are nearly upon us - just incase this conflict teacher does have something positive to say, at least then you and dd will have a slightly better feeling about the new school year in August?

frankly my talk with the teacher on Friday is still rankling a great deal so I have a bad feeling about this talk on Monday. Not sure whether I should go really. I am very emotional at the moment tbh

I know, I understand it must hard to put on a calm face when infact you are fuming. I was just thinking it might make the inevitable back to school time a bit easier on your dd and you if this was dealt with or atleast if you can set the ball rolling. Can you find someone to go with you? This class teacher really seems to have turned on you, she was quite nice at the beginning of term.

I don't think she issued hot and steaming directly from the pit of hell (well not entirely anyway!). She's alright but I had noticed at parent evenings, she reacts very strongly to implied or overt criticism and my assumption is that by not accepting the situation I am criticising her handling of it IYSWIM. Hence the response.

However I'm thinking over what you said about the meeting. At the moment I feel very negatively about it.

however my kitchen is now spectacularly clean

It was her saying you should go ahead and change schools that I found shocking. When I spoke to a teacher about ds's rubbish class teacher and said I was already looking at other schools they took it seriously and sent me directly to the head teacher (not that it helped much!) but if they had just said go ahead and move then I would have been shocked.

It shocked me too admylin, especially since she brought it up so often as if having formulated the idea, she had really got a taste for it.

That was really an unpleasant "discussion". You see I think I am in for more of the same on Monday. Why should it be any different?

Well, hopefully this other conflict teacher will lead the discussion, do you know who it is? A friend of mine in south Germany is trained to be a conflict teacher and does this sort of thing, she is a social worker and this training (ombudsman) took another year of special training. I could ask her what the next step would be in your case if you like?

It's a man, another class teacher in the school. I know him by sight but not to talk to. Can't make any comment on him really. Our class teacher has been at the school for 20 years though and I imagine they have been colleagues for many years. So he's hardly going to say or do anything she will disagree with I'm sure.

I know tbh in a way I am just trying to get out of an unpleasant confrontation. I expect that now the meeting has been arranged by the school, I will have to bite the bullet and get through it.

I hope it goes well, especially for your peace of mind. He might be more sympathetic to your problem, dd's male teacher doesn't stand for any bullying and even mild teasing is stamped on staright away whereas the female maths teacher and ds's class teacher don't have any authority over the pupils and even accept being shouted at by 8 year olds.
We'll be getting the same class teacher for ds nest term but I'm going to go to the first parents evening prepared for the worst and just hope it'll be better without too much of a fight.
What does your dd say about it all now? Does she know about the meeting? Will she go to school willingly or is she asking to stay home?

What I mean with her reaction to criticism at parent evenings was, one dm asked if the dc could use a writing book for that (bloody awful) Fibel they were using. Her dd had used it the year before and it involved creative writing exercises related to the reading book. The teacher said in quite a sarcastic voice, she could do what she liked at home with whatever books she wanted but the teacher wouldn't be using it at school. It was quite offensive the way she did it. Like the dm was a fool. I felt sorry for the dm at the time.

Another df raised the question of security and she shrugged it off, another asked about the amount of homework dc were getting and the teacher was always quite dismissive. She has been teaching a long time I suppose so perhaps she just feels she knows what she's doing and can't be bothered with interfering parents?

no she doesn't willingly go to school. I had to give her the money for new school books because I wasn't sure if we would have a new school organised for the beginning of term and she "forgot" to hand it in. I reminded her every morning and she didn't do it. In the end I had to give it to the sec myself. Dd had seen me writing a letter to go in the envelope with the money and asked "what are you writing, am I staying in this school?". She was very upset about it. She hates teh school, everything about it.

I can imagine, I've had so many parents evenings along those lines, awfull. Dd's teacher really atleast pretends to take us all seriously and it makes all the parents like him and feel as if they do have some say in it all but infact I think he's just clever and they all do what they want anyway.
I also know from my friend that alot of the 'extras' like conflict solving or helping dc with problems is ignored by teachers because they feel they aren't paid to do it. They wait for funding to have a paid social worker take over all that side of it and as berolina said most of the teachers don't feel they should have to do any erziehung only pure teaching. It's a shame for the kids really.

well ok I didn't know that they felt they didn't have to do anything other than transmit knowledge, I suppose I just assumed that the teachers also felt they were supposed to in some way monitor/guide dc's interaction with each other. Perhaps that's the problem here, that I'm assuming the school should be doing something about this, and they feel it isn't anything to do with them?

Could be I suppose.