What if anything can I ask the school to do about this?

[SSSandy2]

Ok has been going on a while, my dd is very unhappy at school because of the behaviour of one boy who wanted to be her friend but she doesn't like him. Having experienced him myself I can understand why, he isn't pleasant to her and I don't like him myself.

Told dd to avoid him as much as possible. He doesn't allow dd to play with another girl she was friends with. If they played, he'd drag the other girl away, kick dd and call her names. Told teacher, teacher said that wasn't on and spoke to him. No change.

He tips water in dd's satchel, kicks, hurts, calls her names. Spoke to the teacher. She said she doesn't permit that kind of thing, dd should always tell her if something happens. She made dd tell him she wants him to leave her alone. Nothing changed.

Yesterday at school. He told this girl either she goes up to dd and calls her names or his mother won't buy the girl an icecream after school or take her to the fair. So girl comes up and starts calling dd names too. Dd very hurt and upset by this.

So what can I really expect the school to do about this boy, if anything? They know I want to change schools, that dd hates school now and the teacher has tried talking to him. Is there realistically anything the school can do? He now just waits until no teacher is around before he goes up to dd to say or do something mean.

I'm just generally not keen on confrontation tbh so feeling a bit uncomfortable with the whole thing.

The head is deceased???? Or the other child's mother????

You are too nice for Germany, SSSandy.

Do you have a long-term exit strategy for this school situation?

I'm afraid I'm not nice at all! Just wimpy.
The dh of the class teacher died. Sorry that was so unclear!

Long term exit strategy - oh I wish! No, unfortunately not. I've looked around at other schools but haven't found something I feel 100 percent good about.

I'll try writing a letter tonight and either hand it to the secretary tomorrow when I make the appointment with the head or just use it to order my thoughts.

write straight to the Hd. Any problem that persists over time imo, go to the top and write a really postive letter praising the school and the teacher if you can and saying it's obviously going to need the Hd's attention.
Argue your child cannot succeed at school with this going on. Best to use an academic argument with a Head but praise first is always a great motivator ime!!

A German friend of mine moved back to Germany and German schools when her ds was 7. She's been shocked at how little supervision the kids get in the playground and was quite upset by it, big ones throwing their weight around etc. Really sorry to hear about your dc but can't suggest anything helpful. Is there an international school or something ou could try instead?

Also agree with frogs, I speak German myself and tact and subtlety is definitely not their thing. Don't be embarrassed to protest very strongly, and good luck.

Thanks both of you for those comments. I have looked intensively for alternative schools but haven't found anything I feel entirely convinced about. You know how it is, every school has some drawback and there are problems with the international schools.

I think ipanema I should have written straight to the head, however I kept dd at home today, called the school sec this morning and explained briefly why and that I would keep her at home until clearing things with the teacher. So had to wait for her to call really.

Update: teacher just called. Thanks so much for your postings. I am sure I was stronger than I would usually have been.

She said she had hoped to clear things with him by speaking to him but I told her it obviously wasn't bearing fruit so we need to take a different approach. She suggested I speak to the dc himself (!) but I said that wouldn't go down with the parents and I wasn't prepared to do that, I want the school to speak directly to the parents about it.

What she told me was the school has had run ins with the parents before about other issues (not social behaviour) so really wanted to avoid dealing with this until the new school year. Well thanks so much. So I said I felt the school had to do that now and she said she would call them tonight

so now I can't really make an appointment with the head, can I?

I'm really shocked that this boy's family is known to be difficult in some way and that it's your daughter who is suffering because the school is pussyfooting around. I hope you're extra determined now

Send a follow-up letter to the teacher tonight, re-stating the action she agreed to take in your conversation of today, and asking her to let you know the outcome of her discussion with the other child's family, and to outline for you her follow-up plan to prevent this situation arising again.

And copy the head into the correspondence.

very odd! im limited experience any kind of behaviour like this has to be tackled at once! But as a school gov I now realise that things are often not as they seem so maybe there are extenuating circs. Good for you taking action though and it does seems a slightly lame response from the outside

ok I'll do that frogs. Thanks everyone for the advice. I think they were hoping it would just die down or I would find a way of solving the problem myself but how can I really when I am not at school.

Ok so I'll ask them to let me know what the outcome of the discussion with parents was (bet it was feeble) and what they plan to do to prevent this kind of thing happening again.

I wrote a letter to hand in to the teacher with a copy to the head but I'm not sure I got the tone of it right. Has to sound quite firm I think (?) without showing a lack of respect. Finding it quite diff to achieve the right balance. Might have to sleep on it!

Thanks for all the help everyone!

Want to post it, Sandy? Happy to do a German prose advisory service (in between listing one of our three sheds on ebay...).

OMG you have THREE sheds. is this some kind of landed country estate?!

Could I mail it to you frogs? That would be a big help. It's quite long, I will have to shorten it but it would be good to hear how you think it comes across generally. My mail is iskrennii at yahoo dot de.

Oh dear, another thread about Germany where German people don't appear in the best light...

but I do really feel for you and it sounds awful and I agree 100 % with frogs, you have to be very direct and in your face with Germans, that's how they operate.

Thanks emkana. These things are difficult wherever they happen because you never really know whether you're being too protective and OTT or whether it is one of those times when you really DO have to be strong on your dc's behalf. Actually I find this the worst part of parenthood (after dc's health problems)

actually I have to say that when I told her on the phone in quite a FIRM voice that I want the school to discuss it with the boy's parents, she reacted very well to it. I think I need to be clearer in what I would like them to do. Up till now, I have only called her to tell her what has been going on and how dd feels about it but I have never said, I'd like this or that done. Did she find it feasible? etc

Will email you, SSSandy. No, it's not a landed country estate, it's a smallish London garden. For some reason, the people we bought the house off felt they needed three sheds. We don't, oddly enough, particularly since it is hideous and blocks the light to the kitchen. So was hoping I could find someone prepared to pay us for the privilege of removing it.

Thanks frogs, I'm still working on it a bit. Dh says he thinks it sounds rude and I can't possibly send it. I'll send it tomorrow morning if that's ok

Could you arrange playdates with other children in the class? I know she shouldn't have to but making new friends may rebuild some confidence?

I really feel for her, it sounds like the boy needs a consequence for his behaviour? He could miss a playtime? If I was his parent I'd definitely want to know.
Hope you get a postive outcome soon.

SSSandy2, I read your letter that you mailed me and I think it sounds great. When ever I write a letter in German it's always too polite and German friends always correct it to make it sound rude (IMO) but that's just how we have to do it over here. You know when we go back to the UK sometimes I see my sisters eyes popping out at the way I speak to shop assistants, or how I dare to complain if something isn't OK in a restaurant - I need a week to go back to my polite old self, I even have to re-learn the good old art of queing.

Another idea, is there a sozial paedagoge or social worker type person in the school? They do have some methods and schemes against bullying in German schools usually run by the social worker of the schools ours was called Faust los and it was a set programme which worked quite well but that was in the south and Berlin is quite different. You could google it and suggest such a programme to be set up in the school? They even had a buddy thing called Paten where a 4th year child had a 1st year child to look after at play time, my dd was often 'looked after' in her first week by a very proud Patin who dried her tears and showed her the ropes.

Hi thanks guys. I took dd into school today and I DID speak to the boy. I was waiting at the classroom door for the teacher actually who it turned out had a free lesson! I was quite harsh with him but I hope I didn't overdo it I hope. He looked subdued but not terrified. Not sure I should have done it, dunno.

Then asked the sec for an appointment with the head to discuss it and she didn't like the idea. Said she'd have to speak to the class teacher and I should come back in 20 minutes.

Well, had to have a meeting with the teacher instead. She called the boy's family last night and they said they knew all about it. Great. And were "surprised" the school had called them. She was pretty sarky on the whole, on the lines of "what do you expect me to do about it?". So I said, why isn't the boy receiving some kind of punishment since the talks haven't been achieving much? She said , if I think he needs punishment this isn't the school for me and she thinks I should look for another school. The thought of punishing him hadn't crossed her mind.

Since these things often happen in the playground, I said can an older child or several in turn be roped in to watch over dd or keep an eye on the boy's behaviour? She doesn't like the idea of supervision (!) It gives her a bad feeling.

So the run-down is, she will continue talking to him when something happens (if she knows about it) and some dc just take longer for it all to sink in. Basically she tried to convince me to change school because then I think she's rid of the problem with the least hassle TBH.

So in the meantime dd just has to put up with it. She said she could "try" and make an appointment with the conflict teacher, so he, I, the teacher and the head could discuss it together. So I said, yes I'd like that. Then she said, it might not be possible to arrange an appointment till the new school year, I might not be able to see the head at all.

Basically she and the sec don't want me to speak to the head. I tried getting an appointment with the head afterwards (to discuss taking her out of school till the end of term and teaching her at home) and the sec wouldn't give me one. She said the head now knows about it and ISN'T PREPARED to speak to me about it!

So I said, should I write a letter then? And the secretary said, oh no, I'll talk to the head again and call you back.

So I did a really crap job of it, didn't I?