Please don't 'baby' your children

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Where do I start?

Parents of my y3/4 class routinely carry their children's bags in, take their lunch bags to the hall, hand in letters and money, put their reading diaries and spelling books in the right places on the right days, linger in the corridor chatting ... for goodness sake MAKE YOUR CHILD LOOK AFTER THEIR STUFF!

7-9 year olds can carry bags and remember books. Don't baby them. Even 3 year olds can carry their bags - don't be that parent who mollycoddles their children.

Attachment parenting is not about doing everything for your child but about creating a very secure attachment to you such that he/she can explore the world at his/her own pace and detach from you safe in the knowledge that you will be there to help if/when he/she encounters difficulties.

I think the other difficulty with this form of parenting is it is rather based on the idea that all other environments work in the same way. A school can't be based around the idea that a class teacher will be a substitute Mum or Dad. Which is rather the point of the original post.

I see it slightly differently than the way you describe.

I think it's more a case of supporting as they need, and encouraging freedom as they feel able. Many very young children will naturally fight an overbearing parent to do things themselves, I'm thinking back to the struggles I've had with mine wanting to put their outfits together without any help from me while I wince and look away at the stuff they've decided to wear! Although DS insists on picking his own clothes he wants me to put his socks on every morning. Can he do it himself? Yes. Is it easy? No. Am I disabling him by doing it when he asks? I don't believe I am, I think he feels looked after by this little routine he likes to follow, and when he needs to do it himself at school (or when I am taking too long to get there) he can. Sometimes it's the little things. I can't see why me putting his socks on is so important to him but it is, for the moment, and that's fine by me. It won't be when he's in secondary school but we all know that's not going to happen in a normal and reasonable, balanced family, which I believe we are.

I currently have a 5 year old who won't let me carry his heavy swim bag each week. He loves the bag and wants to carry If because it houses his swim kit as well as his big brother's. His tiny book bag for school is another matter. It's much lighter and can easily be worn across the body, but he likes to run free with his friends and finds it holds him down in races, so most of the time wants me to hold it, not him. I'm quite happy to do that, as I know his desire to run free with his friends won't last forever and he's so little, yet so capable when he wants to be. Moreover it would knock his confidence if he couldn't compete and I want him to enjoy himself rather than be bogged down because Mum is proving a point.
When we went shopping the other day I needed him to carry his new trainers, as I would not have enough hands going back to the car. He happily accepted his duties.

My older son is in year 4, and has severe anxiety at times, for a very good reason which I don't need to go into here. But he accepts when he gets dropped off that he carries his bag - he walks down the path alone so no parent there to do it for him. However most of the time I carry it out to the car when I take the younger child's bag out. He still throws his jumper on his parents when he goes to play in the park though, and I'm happy with that. I am not going on the swings so I'd do that for anyone. It's reasonable.

Attachment parenting is absolutely not predicated on the idea that any other adult eg a teacher is going to be an attachment figure.

I think one problem that is unique to the U.K. is the extremely short duration of the adaptation to school ie a single year in Reception. In France, for example, école maternelle lasts for three years so there is much more time and leeway to acquire the skills necessary for school readiness. And there are no silly uniforms!

except that the equivalent of ecole maternelle is not reception but pre-school.

I do think that our schooling system is ridiculous, and would much prefer if the school could concentrate on social skills and general playing , and keep the reading/writing/counting for later. It has no benefit whatsoever to read and write at 4. The kids would catch up just as well later.

Uniforms are a god send, I couldn't be in a school without one.

That’s a fairly common way people excuse not differentiating and not being inclusive.
Absolutely not.
In fact trotting out such lines demonstrates a deliberate unwillingness to engage with the debate or lack of hands on experiencing differentiating.

There is a difference between mollycoddling and supporting a child to become independent. The only people who don't understand that (or claim not to) are people who are up for mollycoddling.

Being inclusive means SUPPORTING a child to develop independence and the skills required to thrive. Doing things for them and mollycoddling them does the child a massive disservice, reinforces low expectations and leaves a child helpless without adult input and lacking resilience as they move through school.

Which is more inclusive:

1. As a teacher/parent I will support you to take the required steps to independence that are appropriate for you so you learn to stand on your own twonfeet and having strategies to use in life
2. I will do everything for you and expect teachers and others to do everything for you, find your stuff, manage your calendar, get you to lessons etc because I have such low expectations of you and I don't think you are capable of doing anything for yourself.

The only thing that concerns me about the "required steps" is that I have to question required by who? And for what reason?

Having a requirement for one child may be met easily and without stress, but to another child will feel overwhelming and they're are not quite ready. There should be no shame attached to that, for either parent or child.

Obviously I'm not talking secondary school!

except that the equivalent of ecole maternelle is not reception but pre-school.

No it’s not. École maternelle is taught by qualified primary school teachers to a national curriculum and rigorously prépares children with the skills to succeed at school. It’s nothing like preschool.

you might want to compare the curriculum, you will be surprised because you are wrong.

ComfortComes, what sensible posts, I can't agree more. Most children will get where they need to be when they are ready. Pushing too hard when the child is not developmentally ready (physically or emotionally) often creates an absolutely unnecessary stress for everyone involved.

In french system they do start formal reading and writing about two years later. Most of the time spend by my friend's four year old in french school is on gross and fine motor skills (in a fun way, like chopping vegetables, etc) and social skills, sport, music, craft.
They end up with beautiful handwriting though due to using very fine lined paper from the beginning when they are six or so, unlike unlined paper preferred by schools here.

ThenThereWasCake - I have had ample time to compare the curriculum as I have worked as a curriculum advisor in French-English bilingual education.

I wish you were my DC's teacher (Yr 3). Most of the other mums baby their DC and I feel like I'm being judged as a mean mum for encouraging mine to stand on their own two feet. E.g I expect DC to pack their own fruit for snack (I remind them, but won't do it for them). No snack = go hungry. Teacher 'had a word' with me. DC wasn't in danger of starvation (after all, how filling is a satsuma?!) but they learned the consequences of being disorganised.

They have such “good” handwriting in France because they are absolutely uncompromising in any deviation from the norm! It’s certainly not due to vastly superior pedagogy.

No matter what effect babying children has, or whether children are “ready”or not, it doesn’t explain why children today are increasingly unable to do simple tasks that were absolutely the norm 20 years ago.

'it doesn’t explain why children today are increasingly unable to do simple tasks that were absolutely the norm 20 years ago.'

Guesses

1. Longer working hours. Parents are simply too knackered to spend a lot of time assisting children with developmental tasks - eating, toileting etc
2. A desire to be children's best friend and/or a fun parent. Undue fear of the temporary negative emotions children might express when they're told to do stuff like getting dressed.
3. Capitalism. There's money to be made from selling parents' disposable nappies, child friendly cutlery etc. I am not saying these products aren't useful at some stages of development. But the longer you can delay children's maturation, the more you can persuade adults to spend.

'it doesn’t explain why children today are increasingly unable to do simple tasks that were absolutely the norm 20 years ago.'

I think that it’s mostly about expectations.

I’ve observed that lots of people both in real life and on MN have very low expectations of their children. I’m really not sure why.

This whole thread is full of people saying things like “children can’t be trusted to hand in letters/envelopes of money to their teachers” - why the hell not?

My children have known since they started school at 4yo at if they lost their school shoes/coat/gym kit etc that I would consider it their responsibility. Not their teachers or anyone else’s theirs.

They know that they are responsible for packing their bags, making sure they have homework, lunch etc.

I have high standards and I expect the kids to meet them. There’s nothing draconian about it and they rise to the occasion.

If you set low expectations that’s what you’ll get.

( And yes SEN make a difference of course)

They have such “good” handwriting in France because they are absolutely uncompromising in any deviation from the norm! It’s certainly not due to vastly superior pedagogy.

The pedagogy used in France to teach cursive handwriting (all DC use a fountain pen from age 6) is very different to any pedagogy currently in use in the U.K.

Except that article is full of errors. The provision for bilingual education (free, within mainstream state schools) is extensive and has multiple variants. No such provision for diversity exists in English state schools.

zzzzz
We believe in an inclusive education and society.

You are kidding, right?

The UK pays lip service to inclusion and assimilation, but it boasts a caste system where educational opportunity is concerned.