3+ 4+ 5+ 7+ Support thread 2019

[mumteacher]

In previous years I have started these threads to help and support all those involved in the independent school admissions process.

I wasn't going to start one this year as I know I would not be able to check back on it as regularly as I would like, which then defeats the purpose of the thread.

However, after numerous positive PM's about the threads I think it would be a shame not to start one where at least the hand holding can continue. 🤝

There are many many people who have been through the process and 'live to tell the tale' . There are also other tutors I know who read this thread and it would be great if you all could help and support and share your ideas👏🏼

(Roll on 2019!) 😉

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/3073499-3-4-5-7-support-thread-2018

@wishthiswasmorefun - Indeed hindsight is a great thing. We got rejected at interview levels at both SPJ and WUS this year at 7+ (this has hit me very very hard). We think the group activities at SPJ didn't go that well whereas it was the interview at WUS that trumped us. At least now we know that we need to focus so much more on interviews and group activities and not listen to those who say you can't prepare for them.

As I said earlier, as a mum, it will take us a few weeks or may be months to accept this. Thankfully for working mums, our jobs help us to take our minds off this for some time during the day. But for DS' sake, we have to move on. It's been almost a month now since we got declined by WUS and I still haven't gathered courage to research 8+. Hopefully, things will be better over next few weeks.

skal, I totally understand what you are going through. My older son got rejected at 7+ and it was very hard to accept that. Took me months to move on and now he will take 11+ next year but I still have this horrible feeling in my gut as he was rejected last time.
My younger son is on the WL for Highgate this year and It is so difficult that I can’t even explain. My expectations are low this time but deep down I know if he too gets rejected it will hit hard a second time. I worked with my younger son for a year and after all the hard work he still is on the WL. Will my boys ever get in a good school? Breaks my heart as they are clever boys.
Hang in there as you are not alone in this.

They aren't 'rejections' at 4+ and 7+. They are 'not yet'. And, FFS, why are you even telling DCs which schools didn't offer? Just tell them where they ARE going! They don't have any concept of prestige or league tables unless you fill their heads with it. Why would you send the message at such a young age that you are disappointed in them?

@horsemadmom. Totally agree with your first point. These are no rejections. Every child is different and at a different stage of development. One a certain aspect is 'tested' in these assessments and it is not a robust assessment of a child's future capabilities or success. However I do think you could be more tactful in your approach. I very much doubt there are legions of mums locking their DC in cellars with bread and water or emotionally scaring them with tales of how disappointed they are. That was a really unjustified judgement. They may not have a concept of league tables but most 4 and 7 year olds are smart enough to know they have sat a test and of course are going to ask the parents. Ladies I think we should all try a cut each other a bit of slack!

Actually, they probably won't remember which school was which beyond 'the one where we got smartie biscuits' or 'the one with the big swimming pool'. If you just tell them which school you, as parents, have 'chosen' they probably won't think to ask what the other options were. I'm not accusing anyone of intentionally scarring their DCs but, some of you seem to be giving them information they don't need and shouldn't have. Other than the prep that gave my DS an offer on the spot (we didn't take it and they knew they were back up), DS only knew where we had chosen and his only question was who of his mates was going. It was a two minute conversation . DD1 at 4+ was just happy that we chose the noisy school because she didn't like the quiet school. DD2 was upset at 7+ that we chose the school with the pool over the one with the dogs.

@horsemadmom I think you have misinterpreted the nature of the comments. It’s not that the rejection for the children but rejection that the parents feel - when you have spent months preparing your DC for an exam and then to be told they didn’t cut the mustard of course there’s going to be a feeling of “did I fail my child” “did I not do enough”. We are all shielding our children from the feelings of rejection but that’s not to say that we as parents can’t feel rejected.

I agree with sunflowerandsmiles you lack tact. You are all over these forums gloating about your DC just walking into these top schools and actually it’s presents like you that make us feel worse.

I agree with horsemadmom to a point, though I think the kids do discuss it. When our son didn't get interviews at certain schools I didn't tell him (he remains oblivious to the idea that there is a cutoff after the tests to be invited back) but I started dropping into conversation that I thought schools A&B (where he still had a chance) were much better than schools C&D (where he didn't get interviews) because school D was a long journey, the playground at A was much nicer, B has a chess club etc etc etc. I deserve an Oscar!

I know a family where they waited together for the post each time and I don't think that's appropriate at this age.

*parents

Also horsemadmom, it is, what, 10-15 years ago since your kids did these tests? Schools and ratios of applicants to places have changed.

Love your performance Skimmedmilk1! We told DD2 that our dog would be jealous if she had gone to the school with dogs. She thought about it and decided we were right...and then apologised to our dog.

Omasa- full disclosure so you can stop describing it as 'gloating'.
DS sat 7+ at two schools. He told us and anyone else who would listen that he never wanted to leave his pre-prep. EVER! We think he thought he could just stay and get big and be a teacher. Drew very detailed doodles on both 7+papers. Fortunately, this was before the 8+ was discontinued so he got his wish for another year. At 8+, we sat him for 3 schools. He got 2/3. We chose. Job done. 7+ was Not Yet.
DD2 sat 4+ at DD1's school and didn't get in. We were advised to test for SpLD at 6 because the assessment had picked up abnormalities. The school was spot on. We did major therapeutic intervention and vision correction (she had been seeing double her whole life and regular eye testing hadn't picked it up). Sat 4 schools at 7+. DD1's school again said Not Yet as they didn't have SpLD support for her issue but recommended an equally academic school with better support. We chose that one. After one very happy year at that school, the Head left and the SENCO retired. The Head was replaced by someone who couldn't get rid of DD2 fast enough. She cried every day and started to have very scary anxiety symptoms. We pulled her out and did home ed until she was healthier and we could find a prep that would take her. Sat for 5 schools at 11+ and she finally got DD1's school and has done really well.
Only DD1 'walked' into her school but she's a freak of nature.
DD2's experience is a lot more recent than you seem to think. I have a big age gap. Ratios are not that different at all. My first two went into this before the crash and their fees were a smudge over half what schools charge now. Numbers of applicants have changed at 11+ because fewer can afford boarding but, parents are sitting far more numbers of schools at 4 and 7. It doesn't change the number of actual children in the pool. In fact, my first two were in years with much higher birth rates.

@litan8 congratulations on making the final decision - now you can celebrate! I definitely think you made the right decision and one I would have made if I were in your shoes. By all accounts NLCS is a great school and I’m sure your DD will thrive there. I doubt SHHS will discriminate against you for not taking their offer at 4+ as long as you didn’t string them along - for example if you accepted the offer and saf on it and then rejected it much later - I’m sure that would not looked upon favourably but it sounds like you have done the right thing!

Also i suspect the move from NLCS To shhs at 7 would be easier than moving from SHHS to NLCS - congrats again !

@horsemadmom I think you misunderstood my point. As parents we all feel rejection on behalf of our children - I felt far worse receiving a rejection letter for my DS at 7+ than I would have had the rejection letter been for myself - as I felt I had failed my child as I’m the one responsible for him. He is only 7 - I have shielded him from the process and have told him the least I can. I have told him the schools he sat are too far and we changed our minds but that doesn’t ease the rejection @sq77 and @skal were speaking off. I feel the use of FFS isn’t helpful in a forum where parents are sharing our feelings - full disclosure or not. Yes it might not be Not Yet for many of us but that fear of what is to come is still very raw for those of us who are experiencing this for the first time.

Apologies for the too blunt FFS. We took a rather different view to the Not Yet at 7+. When we found out about the doodles (didn't answer any questions, just drew willies), we laughed. We didn't take it personally or think it said anything about DS's abilities- other than his skill at drawing willies.
With DD2, we were pretty impressed that the assessment had picked up something that yearly eye exams hadn't. At 7, we were grateful for the guidance towards the right school for DD2. Or was, until it went tits up.

In both cases, we never felt we hadn't done enough because we invested no self-esteem in the process. We just wanted our DCs in the right schools for them at the arbitrarily timed point when such decisions are made.
Except....we should have listened to DS when he said he didn't want to leave pre-prep. EVER.

Well said, horsemadmom. Thanks for sharing your story. I find it very inspiring, and hope that others find it empowering as well.

You're welcome! None of this is life and death. Anybody who bothers to post on here cares about this stuff (or is stuck waiting for the plumber to arrive- ME!) and all our kids do just fine because we care. The path that they take to just fine isn't always the one in your plans for them and that's ok too.

@horsemadmum - I really wish it was as easy as you say. DS's are very smart and very very aware. It is no longer a school with swimming pool or dogs. When they are going for interview at WUS or SPJ, they know what it means (to a large extent). And more than parents nowadays, it is peer pressure where this awareness comes from. When they sit an exam and see their friends there....they know it means something. It is not a process solely between parents and children anymore but schools and friends are also involved nowadays. So blaming the parents on locking kids up in a cellar or being paranoid, is not fair.

Hello, I’m sending positive thoughts to all those who didn’t have the news they hoped for or who are still waiting. Sorry for repeating my question of yesterday which is a little off topic, but just in case it got lost in the thread and just in case anyone happens to know approx numbers of applications for Channing 4+ this year? Thank you!

skal, I've said nothing about locking kids in cellars or parent paranoia. That was another poster. Just because they've seen friends at different schools doesn't mean that they think 'that's the competition'. If you present it as your choice as parents at the end of the process, it's of no more consequence than which of them plays football or takes tennis lessons (struggling for a less MC comparison and failing).

Sorry that was suppose to say St Paul's Junior and not St James

litan8 - we know real like friends, not MN or hearsay. DD1 went to NL at age 4. Did not work so well. Moved her at age 7 to SH. Both their girls now there. Closer to home and suits both girls better. I think as long as you have been clear with SH then a transfer back should it be required would be very possible if it were required. Hopefully not!

Those of you who have experience of waitlists. Do they really move?Tearing my hair out here.

Does anyone have kids in Alleyn's Junior? What can you tell about the school? We're trying to decide between Alleyn's and Dulwich College for our son, but it's a tough choice!