School won't keep our place - what to do?

[VitAL]

Hi all,
I'm really stuck with a difficult dilemma and would appreciate any thoughts. DC is currently at a very academic pre-prep, we chose it precisely for their leavers' destinations, they send a lot of children to three top selective indies high on our list and some pupils to a couple more selective schools. DC is happy there, but I want to give 4+ a go. I feel I would really regret if I don't, would be thinking all the time about opportunities lost and it's a bit easier to get in at 4+ than 7+. I wouldn't say DC is exceptionally academic at 3.5 but strong-willed (sometimes to the extent of being bossy with even older children), emotionally mature and disciplined/co-operative so I think could do quite well at 4+.

The problem is our school won't keep our place for Reception if they find out we're sitting 4+ and I think they easily can as it has very good links with most of the schools on our list. I have actually sent applications to two schools before I knew about our school's policy (it's not an official policy AFAIK but people talk). I've no idea if they actually ask for references and reports at 4+. I'm still thinking about applying to at least three more schools. I guess (I'm not 100% sure) I could leave the current school's details blank on application forms but I feel bad about it TBH.

If we get kicked out of the current school we might end up with no place at all. We might possibly get a last minute place at a non-selective non-academic indie, but that would mean extra money on tuition for 7+ with less chances and much more uncertainty as we plan to buy a house close to the school if DC gets in at 4+, if not that would be another 3-4 years in limbo.

I'm at a loss what to do and so stressed about the whole situation that I lost sleep. Should I abandon the whole idea and wait until 7+?Please help, I really need to make up my mind.

However, I do think changing schools at 11 or 13 is actually very good for children.

I would agree if the tutoring and preparation didn't take over a year or two of their lives beforehand.

3 year olds being hot housed and thinking about exams? Poor, poor children.

Children should be digging in mud, playing in sand, making playdough, listening to stories, scrapping over toys.

Why would you want all that pressure on your child? God I'm glad I'm thick...

You don't have to tutor

true. but most do. and then lie about it. so it's an escalating arms race and unless your child really is the brightest of the bright, then tutoring or intensive work yourself at home is necessary.

Utterly ridiculous thread.

And what's more there doesn't seem to be a reason for the fantastic results requirement as UK universities are really easy to get in to and professional jobs easy to come by if you have the right connections. So what's the point OP.

Your child is happy at a good school. That's enough.

'I knew of several children who were tutored for 7+, one had a nervous breakdown' poor little thing.

I would agree if the tutoring and preparation didn't take over a year or two of their lives beforehand.

And if the whole business of 11+ wasn't so horrendously stressful for children.

@LittleBearPad Oh never mind, I'm just a ridiculous person starting my ridiculous threads for no reason at all :)

US universities are NOT harder to get into than UK universities (although if you are going for a "lighter" subject it might be). I speak from experience.

This is a very bizzare thread. Not high,y acemdic and 3.5? Uni easy to get into. Well I don't know but my daughter needed three a levels at A grade ( achieved above that) to get her place to study law at a Russel group uni, I suspect none of the 400 kids who started with her would tell you that was easy, and nor would she.

Oh and the 200 kids kicked out after the first year for making the great, that wasn't easy either.

But hey, you're right, it's really much harder when they are 3.5

"For not making the grade" sorry,

You certainly aren't making much sense OP. What's the end game of the fantastic schools if the typical outcomes university/job are easy to get (which btw they are not)

I genuinely hope your child has natural ability. For his sake op.

Children should be digging in mud, playing in sand, making playdough, listening to stories, scrapping over toys

And these activities teach them huge amounts of essential stuff that is not quantifiable with grades.

US universities are NOT harder to get into than UK universities (although if you are going for a "lighter" subject it might be). I speak from experience.
I also speak from experience, having gone through the whole process with a member of extended family who lived with us at the time, studied A levels, sat SAT I and SAT II and applied to RG and to top tier US unis writing tons of essays.
But maths is rubbish, I agree :)

US universities are NOT harder to get into than UK universities (although if you are going for a "lighter" subject it might be). I speak from experience.

I agree. I am in the US with one in university and one applying. Harvard and some others are harder to get into than most UK universities (i.e. have a lower acceptance rate than oxford/Cambridge) but they aren't the only universities in the US and only a minority of students go there.

You certainly aren't making much sense OP. What's the end game of the fantastic schools if the typical outcomes university/job are easy to get (which btw they are not)
Well, how can I make much sense if I'm ridiculous? :)

Harvard and some others
That's the point. We're not speaking about any uni.

Well I don't know but my daughter needed three a levels at A grade ( achieved above that) to get her place to study law at a Russel group uni, I suspect none of the 400 kids who started with her would tell you that was easy, and nor would she.

Sorry to hear it was so difficult for your daughter.

I actually never called you ridiculous.

I said this was a ridiculous thread and it is.

However I would like to understand what the point of stressing about schools at three is, if university and a job are so easy to achieve?

I have no experience of US universities, however according to the sites I've just looked at, it doesn't sound any worse than UK universities. The 'tons of essays' sound very general - the sort of info that would usually be included in a personal statement. Admittedly each uni appears to ask for two or three, each of which would be around 500 - 700 words. I can't see that is especially taxing for a reasonably bright person who aspires to a university education. I agree it probably appears worse because each university has its own requirements and the essay subjects vary, whereas here, usually only the PS is neededsince UCAS coordinates the application process. Given the number of students who are rejected by UK universities who then end up in US ones, I'm sure they wouldn't say that it's easier here. Out of interest, what exams do US students take at the end of their high school education (A Level equivalent)?

And your comments about UK universities are woeful.

Harvard and some others
That's the point. We're not speaking about any uni.*

So when you say"US universities are harder to get into than UK ones" "US universities" means "a tiny few universities that I rank highly but couldn't be arsed listing out".

You remind me so much of the parents at my children's schools in the US. So many of them convinced that Harvard and a few select others are the only universities that are worth attending (and of course that their children will be accepted).

The actual work, academics and intelligence needed to get into highly competitive universities is pretty much the same the world over. If you have a child who is a B student, they won't be going to Oxford the same way they won't be going to Harvard.

I am Scottish and this whole thread has me boggled
A 4+ exam??? Scottish kids aren't even in formal education at 4..

Kids here attend local primary which feeds into local secondary
We can request Another school but it's the council who work out numbers and say yes or no.. Nothing to do with the school or ability..

And yes Scottish kids make it to uni

Is there any evidence that turning children into performing monkeys at 3.5 leads to higher attainment later? Because if not this is all rather pointless as well as being sad. Surely it's far more important that they learn to love stories, be curious, experiment, explore.

(FWIW I was state school all the way but still ended up with first degree and PhD from Oxbridge).

And your comments about UK universities are woeful.

Yes, I know As opposed to very nice comments about my children's abilities casually thrown into this discussion.