School won't keep our place - what to do?

[VitAL]

Hi all,
I'm really stuck with a difficult dilemma and would appreciate any thoughts. DC is currently at a very academic pre-prep, we chose it precisely for their leavers' destinations, they send a lot of children to three top selective indies high on our list and some pupils to a couple more selective schools. DC is happy there, but I want to give 4+ a go. I feel I would really regret if I don't, would be thinking all the time about opportunities lost and it's a bit easier to get in at 4+ than 7+. I wouldn't say DC is exceptionally academic at 3.5 but strong-willed (sometimes to the extent of being bossy with even older children), emotionally mature and disciplined/co-operative so I think could do quite well at 4+.

The problem is our school won't keep our place for Reception if they find out we're sitting 4+ and I think they easily can as it has very good links with most of the schools on our list. I have actually sent applications to two schools before I knew about our school's policy (it's not an official policy AFAIK but people talk). I've no idea if they actually ask for references and reports at 4+. I'm still thinking about applying to at least three more schools. I guess (I'm not 100% sure) I could leave the current school's details blank on application forms but I feel bad about it TBH.

If we get kicked out of the current school we might end up with no place at all. We might possibly get a last minute place at a non-selective non-academic indie, but that would mean extra money on tuition for 7+ with less chances and much more uncertainty as we plan to buy a house close to the school if DC gets in at 4+, if not that would be another 3-4 years in limbo.

I'm at a loss what to do and so stressed about the whole situation that I lost sleep. Should I abandon the whole idea and wait until 7+?Please help, I really need to make up my mind.

Alleyns is very competitive at all entry points - and it's the one that seems to be quirkiest in how it selects. If you're not really keen on it, I suggest you don't put your DC through it, and focus instead in the schools you are more than lukewarm about.

Mine are at a rural private which is lovely and laid back, takes pretty much all children as long as they behave themselves and the parents can pay the fees. Just so glad I don't live in London it sounds like a complete nightmare.

Also fascinated as to what on earth they could be doing more than colouring, chattering and going to the loo on time at 3 years old, I am obviously not competitive enough though I suspect.

I'd suggest don't be bullied, sit the 4+. HH's competitors (Annemount, Golders Hill, The Avenue, Mulberry House) will all have spaces at reception for a girl as so many leave after the 4+ and would gleefully take someone who has had a place at HH removed. And they probably won't follow through with the threat anyway.

Are you in class 5 already?
You must be in 3/4 from the age...

Yes they will send you a letter when in class 5 asking if you are taking any 4+ tests and do say they may no guarantee the place for reception.

We moved to state after class 5 so didn't worry and honestly said on the form we weren't sitting any exams as we would have stayed there if we hadn't got the state school we wanted.

My second is now there in class 1/2 (not giving more details) but we will move her to state as well for Reception...

And yes, at age 3 kids there are usually beyond colours and numbers. Mine could spell and write her name and knew most of the alphabet - mostly linked to children's names (A for Anna, B for Benjy, C for charlie, etc) and all her shapes, using scisors, pencil grip, etc etc...

It is a great school until class 5 which is all I experienced but have been told they get quite strict from reception... My child is bright but i think a tough environment wouldn't have been right for her and she is thriving in state... then for secondary we might look into private or Henrietta Barnett...

Apologies for typos...

@Atenco Honestly, I wouldn't like to start yet another holy war on ways of schooling, they're aplenty and boring at that :) but if it's genuine interest my answer would be nothing extraordinary really at this age. It's just early stages curriculum, just a year or so ahead of the cohort. DC has been doing lots of spelling recently as far as I can tell as tries to read every single street name on the way home. Plus some behavioural training like sitting, concentrating, following instructions, speaking in front of the class doing kind of 'presentation' etc. That's just the basics needed to be able to cope with a fast pace at a highly selective school later on. I'm sure they do all that in other schools too, just maybe a bit later and not that strictly. It's not rocket science.
As for toilet, DC was potty trained at 1.5 and it is by no means unusual, some places just won't accept a child if not fully trained before starting nursery. I know of only one child who still needs to be reminded. So yes, at 3 it's half a life ago for many :)

This is exactly the type of thread that makes so me glad I don't live in London. I appreciate that when you are caught up in it all it seems so crucial and life changing. But from the outside it looks like utter madness.

Your children have such stressful lives and restrictive childhoods and yet at 18 they end up at university sitting alongside the kids from the local comp . Who were painting and gluing at 3 and not having to prove they were socially mature high achievers.

It's sad they have to give up a happy childhood for very little gain. At least that's what it looks like from the outside.

Why don't you just step off this rat race and move where you and your children could have a decent quality of life ?

@AnotherNewt Thank you for the input on Alleyn's. I knew of several children who were tutored for 7+, one had a nervous breakdown so yes, I can imagine it's selective though probably not as much as some North London schools. An easier option by comparison :) But you're right, I'm not 100% sure about it.

@TinyTear Thanks for confirming. Then we'll definitely need a fall back option...

Absolutely everything Olive has just said. We live in a high achieving area of the NW but there is no way i am pushing my DCs. What will they remember from their childhood? Constant education and being continually pushed to the next level. At 3yo?

You talk of 7yo's having nervous breakdowns over tutoring. That post is so telling because the context of which is all about the school and not about the child's mental health.

@0live It's crazy and I'm not saying I like it or think it's the way things should be, but you're either play by the rules or you're out of the game.
We have our personal reasons for playing this game, the details are irrelevant to the topic, it's just family matters.

BTW we do lots of cutting, gluing, colouring too :) We even play, can you believe me? :)

@PatsyMount I do not question your personal choices.

Thanks for you answer, Vital. And yes it was a genuine question.

Do these children not burn out?

What on earth do you mean 'play by the rules or you're out of the game'?

What tosh. The majority of kids at all universities in the UK (yes even RG) are state educated. Are they all out of the game? Or do you mean you're out of your professional circle? In which case - are you really allowing that to decide how you parent your kids?

I reserve the right to feel sad for all these children having nervous breakdowns whilst their parents are pearl clutching about 'the most selective schools' with no apparent concern for their mental health is wellbeing.

It's certainly not for everyone, but then most parents are sensible and understand that. The other thing is if you start them early they just don't know any other way of life and grow into this naturally, if they have abilities that is. If they don't, again normal parents don't want to harm their children and just change the type of school, it's much easier to get into a non-academic school any time. I know many families with highly achieving and extremely ambitious fathers who start their sons in tough academic or military-style environment then changed it later to more relaxed schools when children proved to be unable to cope. The child who had a nervous breakdown went the other way round, he started at a very nice but relaxed prep, then a year before entry began a rather intensive tutoring. He was totally unprepared by the prep and parents, the pace and scope of the material were a shock for him. That's what I'm trying to avoid.

The thought of children getting into top universities from mediocre state schools must make competitive parents with dc's at academically pushy private schools come out in hives.

My friend's dc has just graduated from Cambridge with an outstandingly good degree in physics after attending a local comp and a primary where 40% of the dcs are on FSM.

But then real cream does sometimes rise to the top of its own accord. ;-)

@titchy I can't be bothered about universities, they are not that difficult to get into if it's not medicine and/or Oxbridge. Ditto professional circles, if you come from a professional family you'll have enough connections whatever school you went to.
You didn't get my point at all.

@minifingerz Generalisations are seldom true. DH comes from a country where state education is far from mediocre, there are very few private schools and they are not the best. The whole concept of social segregation by schooling is abhorrent to him and we don't view private education as something special.

@VitAL I agree with the fact they get used to it.

It was funny last September all the post about how tiiiired all the little children were starting reception and how many schools start them on half days for weeks because they get so tiiired... If you are used to nursery/school all day then the change to reception was a doddle...

the biggest shock for us was because none of our class 5 friends came to the same school so my DC missed some friends

Social segregation by schooling CAN'T in any way be abhorrent to your family otherwise you wouldn't be putting your child into a socially segregated school.

Seriously - how do you think kids succeed without all the hothousing you're planning for your child? Because they do you know!

Christ, there is a 4 plus?
People talking about not being too academic at 3?
Jeez and I thought tge 11 plus was too young!

@minifingerz We are not fools to deny the reality, however abhorrent it may be :) And we are not prone to self-harm by going against it.

Seriously - how do you think kids succeed without all the hothousing you're planning for your child? Because they do you know!
LOL actually I know. DC1 went through state school and grammar so yes, I do know what it costs, thank you very much :)