SATS 2016

[FeckinCrutches]

We got our results today, still trying to decipher raw/scaled score. DD got EXS for everything, which is great, but it's very hard not knowing what she would have got on the old system!

I thought reading had the lowest rate for Level 6 in the past. Wasn't it less than 1% last year?

I think the way writing is being taught in order for children to demonstrate the grammar and punctuation skills required for the new curriculum tests is wrong. After reading my daughters writing I am appalled that she now she believes her writing is only 'good enough' if it contains semi colons, 'high level vocab', absence of the word 'said' etc. and is so convoluted it is hard to read. I realize children need to know and be able to use correct grammar and punctuation, but they will need to unlearn all they have been told in order to understand what makes a 'good' piece of writing. If teaching writing continues in this format throughout secondary school the country will end up with a generation that can't write creatively.

Maths had the highest percentage of level 6s. The percentage of level 6s in reading has always been low because it requires a level of maturity that isn't often found in 11 year olds.

I wonder if the reading test results have been skewed by a large number of children getting very low results. It was the paper that was least like anything children would have seen before and there were a lot of comments at the time about children getting very upset by it and not completing the paper.

Fresta I worry that. I have a year 2 and a yr r and worry they're coming all the way through this curriculum. They're currently so imaginative and creative.

We've already had "I even got an exclamation in mum!" and talk of a poem with "one noun, two verbs, three adverbs...."

I wish it wasn't so.

TeenAndTween that's what I understood as well about the 100 not being equivalent to a level 4b but questioned it because I've seen a handful of posts by Yr6 teachers who have said that 100 was level 4b and 118 Level 5 etc. . . .

My DS got similar results to your child . . . I was really pleased with his progress and results even though he missed the maths by one raw score point . . .the SPaG was close as well but he was never going to score highly because of dyslexia: his spelling is v bad.

There's no way 118 can be considered level 5. I'd agree that '100' was more than a 4b, more like 4a I'd say. It's almost impossible to compare though. 118 is a fantastic score and the children I have who have got that would have been an incredibly high 5, a 6 in maths or grammar.

Where do they get the scaled score of 100 being the pass mark from in the first place?

Mand That's how they defined it.

What you maybe need to ask instead is how did they decide how many marks on the test would map on to the magic 100?

www.gov.uk/guidance/scaled-scores-at-key-stage-2

Thanks Teen and mrz

Fresta I couldn't agree more with your concerns. Depressing what this is doing to our children's creativity in writing.

If teaching writing continues in this format throughout secondary school the country will end up with a generation that can't write creatively.

Is that right? I thought the classics were written at a time when English writing was very focused on it's structure and grammar, and they hardly lacked in creativity. If secondary school is to prepare you for work relatively few people need to be good at creative writing whilst lacking grammar skills.

That isn't to say the pendulum hasn't swung too far with regards to terminology in primary, but DD1 really suffered with the utter lack of grammar teaching in the 00s when she was at secondary despite being able to write creatively (in all senses of the word)!

Writing has always has been my ds's weakest subject. Until last year, we were told his writing is boring, too logical, lacks creativity etc.
This year, he got "working at greater depth". I'm not sure I should be happy or not. We have been working so hard on creativity side, now it doesn't matter?

EXP means the child had achieved the expected level and EXS means the child has exceeded expectations and is above the expected level. My children's school is fairly affluent, full of intelligent kids but only two got EXS this year. My Ds's teacher told me to get this the child would need to be working a whole year above their current year group. It's so much harder to achieve since the changes to the curriculum.

Lol at the idea that 'the classics' were written at a time of grammatical conformity. Shakespeare spelt his name fifteen different ways and I bet he didn't write his plays thinking that every fifth sentence must contain a 'wow' word. Yet he still managed to put stuff on paper that resonates through the centuries. Because he was a communicator and he understood the nuances of language that can only be appreciated by diving into that language and where necessary rewriting it entirely which is not something that can be taught by telling children to include four examples of semi colons in the poem they are writing regardless of audience or message.

DDs teacher goes as far saying that every paragraph has to begin with an adverb. What? And as for 'said is dead' GRRRR! Yes, there are alternatives, but banning it completely is just stupidity in my opinion! Imagine reading a novel without the word said in it!

The teaching of grammar is a separate issue to the teaching of creative writing. Why not teach them how to use correct grammar through formal exercises and then allow them to use this grammar as they see fit in their creative pieces. How creative writing is being levelled at the moment requires children to include certain types of punctuation, and sentences structured in a particular way, in order to demonstrate their skills. However, having to include a list of criteria in every piece of writing they undertake takes the focus away from the way the creativity of the piece and it just becomes a tick box excercise.

My dd believes every paragraph must have a semicolon, every noun an adjective before it, and every sentence contain a string of 'high level' vocab. And if it doesn't contain the phrase 'Fear engulfed' then you are a failure

Oh fresta it's not right is it :(

It's horrible isn't it? And also a blatant contradiction in terms. Ie "This is how you be creative. No, you don't do it by writing as you wish; it's all about being creative as we define it. And I'm sorry, but if you haven't included the requisite number of colons in your work then that is not creative".

Fresta I cringe inwardly when I read a review written by a child with all the 'correct' grammar. The adverbs at the start of every sentence makes the writing so contrived and off putting to the reader. Please tell me this won't continue through high school.

mrsglowglow I hope you are not a teacher, I'm mildly offended by your comment.

" I cringe inwardly when I read a review written by a child with all the 'correct' grammar. "

My ds is that child, and we were/are trying really hard to make it more creative, less logical.

Irvine - No I'm not a teacher and really sorry to offend you. I feel for the children as they are complying with what's being asked of them and including all the grammar that's now expected in their writing yet the end result is really not creative. The pieces I've read are held up by the school as fine examples of good writing but to me they lack truth, spontinaity, individualism and tbh are very boring to read!

Thank you, mrsglowglow.
Yes it is boring. My ds's yr1 teacher said his grammar, punctuation, spelling is perfect, but his writing is just "boring". Yr2 teacher didn't say so straight forward, but pretty much same.
Now, he is praised for something we were working so hard to change and make it more interesting. Everything we've been trying is futile?

Poor kids :( feels like they are part of some idiots weird experiment and who knows what the long term damage could be. To me it's like they are doing things in the wrong order. Surely the early years should be about ideas and fun and having the confidence to express their natural creativity? Then with maturity the more complex grammar can be brought in. My worry is that by the time our kids get to high school and beyond any creativity will have been sucked out of them and they will have lost that confidence. With my own kids I continue to encourage reading of all styles and hope this gives them a sense of what really interesting and entertaining writing looks like.

I wasn't aware that the classics of literature referred only to Shakespeare or how referring to him is grammatically relevant unless children are being required to write in old English, which I'm fairly sure they are not. Many classics were written at a time when grammar was taught explicitly at school, they did not suffer because of it.

Creativity and grammar are both important, often children find one easier than the other. Business and universities have been lamenting poor grammar skills for quite some time. I can't imagine the same will be true if future students have improved grammar but relatively poor creative writing skills.

This debate reminds me of the one driven by people who bemoan phonics because it gets in the way of reading "real books". Phonics and grammar are both important building blocks, just like spelling. Why give creativity greater weight?