What would happen if a child didn't want to do their work?

[Classof2032]

Basically that. My 5 year old was kept in at playtime and lost all of her Golden Time today. I feel it was extremely harsh and has the obvious side effect of her deciding that she doesn't like her teacher any more.

*No she isn't - she's choosing to make a big issue out of something quite small and normal'

So if not responding aporopriately to sanctions and the threat of sanctions is 'normal', why are posters justifying their use?

^ appropriately. Typo.

Midnite so losing break time or Goldren time is not, at all, punitive? Why is this used as a negative incentive then? In fact, if this is not seen as punitive, at all - if the child does not see this consequence as at all something unpleasant, then they might actively prefer to chose to work at break or Golden time. Would this not be problematic?

It's not problematic, at least not in my classroom. You can work during the time that is allocated for a specific task, or you work on it during the time you would otherwise be working on your personal project (or golden hour, genius hour, let's create, free time, or whatever name the school wants to use). I don't get in to a battle of wills with my students, and I don't use the finishing off time as punishment. You are choosing to waste your own time if you choose to sit and stare in to space during the allocated work time because it will then be taken from your project time on Friday afternoon. This applies to every single student in the class (and since work is differentiated, there is as much chance of the highest achieving student needing to finish work off as there is a student with additional needs, so it is not discriminating against any particular student group). Students need to learn how to manage their time.

Excellent, Midnite, it almost sounds as if your students are working under a school form of flexible working hours. Although I would be careful that this reasoning genuinely applies to every student, especially those with additional needs. You couldn't apply this reasoning to a child who was experiencing absence seizures, for example, without it being discriminatory.

I stand by my previous post, you quoted, as does sound as if many others do use the withdrawal of playtime /Golden time as a form of punishment. Added to this, it sounds as if this is actually the case in terms of the OP's daughter (more overtly so in the case of the other thread I read of the OP's).

Lager

You really are a dog with a bone.

This is normal - I'm sure the DD is normal - just a little worried about her teacher not liking her - which won't be the case at all -

She hopefully has learnt her lesson and will move on - do her work when asked - or when given consequences will decide to get a move on and complete her tasks -

If her mother complains that Her DD should not lose golden time - as a consequence then the DD will have no work to be marked or assessed which will hold back her eduction.

Teachers have to prove the child can do X Y or Z - otherwise the task has to be redone - until they move levels -

It's her choice really - accept school work is more important than golden time - or let her DD play and not do the work -

It's easy really

Where exactly have you got the notion that this child has additional needs Lagertha? OP has never (in any thread) stated that this is the case. You are making some big assumptions.

I'm pleased to announce we don't have playtimes in reception or Golden hour in any class...problem solved

I am not making any assumptions, Lemon. However I will point out additional needs cannot be ruled out.

If, as so many posters seem keen to, the OP's other threads are taken into consideration, the OP's daughter's difficulties with concentration in a classroom environment and conforming to behavioural expectations, are more clearly apparent. These kind of issues, coupled with the ineffectiveness of the school's sanctions, have been going on for quite a sustained period of time. This alone, would warrant further investigation, including trialling other behaviour management techniques, in order to meet this child's needs more effectively, IMO.

Additional needs are not made official until an assessment is made. Additional needs also may not even manifest if they are met, as a matter of course. It is can only be when needs are not fully met, that additional ones become apparent. In this way, a rigid, inflexible, approach creates a manifestation of additional needs. The parent, may genuinely, have not acknowledged any additional needs if she, naturally and effectively, meets her child's needs without thinking. So it is quite feasible for any additional needs to only have manifested once a child starts school or on a change in the school environment.

Speaking as the mother of a son with additional needs (ASD) the most important lessons are nit academic but how to function in society part of that is learning when refusing is unacceptable.

mrz the operative word here is learning.

The OP's child hasn't, for one reason or another, been able to learn this lesson effectively yet - either that or she does not possess the skills to modify her behaviour, yet. She is being punished for something she clearly is not in full control of, yet. She needs support in this.

Without ever having met the child you are able to assess that they aren't able to make choices about their behaviour

Every child has a choice to make about their behaviour in a daily basis

What parent hasn't given their child a choice - behave or we go home - behave or no story behave or whatever -

It's no new

You, and other posters, are able to assess that she is able to make the required choices, mrz?

I admit there are other possibilities, I have never claimed otherwise. However, it is safe to say, the sanctions have not being serving a strong enough deterrent, against negative behaviours, for the child, from the two threads of the OP's I have read. The sanctions are not working, this, in itself, should warrant an investigation as to the reason why.

Lager, do you talk like this in real life? How's that working for you?

Would you care to direct me to where I have said that Time?

No, I write like this clam. Life is working for me, just fine, thank you very much. I have not lead a life completely without struggle but, thankfully, have managed to overcome the majority of those struggles that have come my way. But, more pertinently, what bearing does my posting style have on the validity of what I am saying?

mrz I presume you are asking that question of me. Your post of 14:36 has an implicit bias in that it implies the opposite of what you are stating - i.e.it reads very sarcastically.

The OP's child hasn't, for one reason or another, been able to learn this lesson effectively yet - either that or she does not possess the skills to modify her behaviour, yet. She is being punished for something she clearly is not in full control of, yet. She needs support in this.

And that support does not mean allowing her to do what she wants, when she wants. In the case of this particular child, that support may involve giving her the choice to work during the assigned time for the task, or doing it during her golden time. My students are supported by being given an appropriate task for their level of development, availability of TA, student teacher, and myself in the classroom, for some students being given choices about which task they undertake, location of where they will do the task, even down to what pencil/pen/colour they want to use. I don't accept 'I don't want to'. I will accept 'I need some time out' or 'I need to work elsewhere' or 'I want to write this in red pen'. The OP's child needs to learn appropriate management of her time, and how to work within the classroom, not just her mother thinking she should be allowed to read instead of doing a specific task, just because she doesn't feel like it.

I don't think she name changed. I recognised her because of the name. It's just the previous threads were in chat so have been deleted.

Ironically, the reason I recognised the name was because I was looking at that AIBU thread the other week as an example of what a stupid idea golden time is. Particularly in reception.

I don't think it necessarily follows that a child that is still having problems at this stage has or needs assessing for additional needs. Particularly when there's a huge difference in expectations between home and school.

Midnite I never suggested it did.

The method, you mention may work, it may not. It does assume, that the task has been correctly differentiated for the child's abilities and that the child is fully capable of concentrating on that task, for the amount of time the task requires, in the particular classroom environment available. We do not know whether this is the case for the OP's daughter.

However, whatever methodology is employed, it must be regularly evaluated and modified appropriately, if as in the OP's daughter's case, it is not successful.

I don't think it necessarily follows that a child that is still having problems at this stage has or needs assessing for additional needs. Particularly when there's a huge difference in expectations between home and school.

Usually there is a graduated approach, within schools, regarding additional needs. I agree formal assessment, at this stage, may well not be happening. However this little girl's problems with concentrating within a classroom environment and meeting the required behaviour expectations, have been happening for quite a sustained amount of time. So alternative approaches, within school, in behaviour management pp should be being trialled and an investigation as to the context this is occurring in should be done, along with checking the child's capabilities regarding the work set. It is not sufficient just to let the child continue to fail at her work and in terms of behavioural expectations.

as in the OP's daughter's case, it is not successful

How do you know that? You don't!!!

Going from the previous thread, of the OP's, in November and this current thread, I would say that it is not a huge assumption to conclude there has been a lack of success, Cody. The child was often punished and missing Golden Time / playtime then and is stil missing it now. She 'hates' her teacher.

She missed one period of Golden Time in November for hitting another child and one in April for refusing to work, it seems to have worked in the meantime!

It is a huge assumption to say there is a lack of success. You have no idea what has happened in the last 6 months.

There seems to be more to it than that, spaniel. The OP wrote this, on Fri 27-Nov-15 19:09:18,

"She prefers silence for her work, so she gets extremely distracted when it's noisy. There have been a few issues with her sitting down on the floor, which we are working through."

The OP's child had also hit another child, now does not 'want' to do her work and hates her teacher. Other posters, on this thread, have mentioned that there have been numerous other threads posted in chat (so deleted) by the OP about the problems her daughter is experiencing at school.