Have a go at the key stage 2 grammar SATS.

[neolara]

Have a go at this mini Key Stage 2 SATs test.

See if you'd pass.

I think it's incredibly important that all 10 year olds know what subordinating conjunctions, modal verbs and determiners are because I use these terms on a daily basis in my actual daily grown up life.

In fact, I'm delighted that my kids will be spending more time learning to label parts of speech and consequently less time on largely irrelevant stuff like computer programming, art, developing social skills, music, history, geography etc. The sort of things that barely impacts on my actual daily grown up life as I work alongside other people, use computers every day, travel, work as a social scientist, appreciate a wide range of cultural experiences such as music on the radio, plays, art galleries .......

While I totally get the need for kids to learn good spelling, punctuation and grammar, somehow I can't get my head round the feeling that things have just gone nuts. Firstly, learning to label grammar parts is not the same as learning to use good grammar. Secondly, learning to label grammar parts at the expense of learning all the other much more useful stuff seems crazy.

Ohcrepe - primary or secondary?

Myfriendscallmeoh I know what you mean but this curriculum started last year! Gove basically had a lovely time playing at teachers and putting together a syllabus to bring back the good old days of his prep school, much of it against the advice that came from educational leaders and researchers.

Primary but not a mainstream class teacher.

I was educated in the 70s and 80s. We didn't learn grammar. The only place it gets me into trouble is on MN grammar threads.

FWIW I got 50%, my 12yo DC (at grammar school) also got 50% and my 7yo got 20%. I'm not sure what, if anything, this proves.

I agree with you freenie by the way. Have you read 'the language instinct' by pinker?

70%.....80s child so not taught a lot of this stuff. I would've been almost completely lost except for my DS is currently y6 and has been doing SATS prep that has meant I've picked up some in trying to help him with his homework!

No I haven't.

Crepe, I learned this sort of thing in the 70s, it's how I got 90%. Irrelevant to today (and irrelevant back then, I have never used this knowledge). Our children should be prepared for the society of 10-50 years time, with spell check, translators (don't get me started on the poor kids sitting through hours of mandarin learning, by the time they're out of uni, everything will be expertly machine translated by in-body chips) and calculators. When did you ever use a modal verb, knowing it was a modal verb? Did this make a difference to not knowing it was a modal verb? When did you last do quadratic equations? It's bonkers.

oh, well it's interesting!

Will look up, thanks

Yep I agree. We walk around with the most amazing tool in our pockets. Children aren't allowed to use them when they should be taught how to get the most out of them. Yes you need a solid basis of knowledge and skills but to actively suppress the usage is completely backward. The maths paper no longer allows calculators!

"I used my common sense and looked at odd ones out type scenario because I haven't a clue what the descriptors mean."

Same here. I had absolutely no idea what a single one of the terms meant and I still got 60%.

My DD got 80%- Yr7, passed L6 SPaG last year. As for me, I wouldn't have a clue!

I have a y6 DC who generally struggles with schoolwork. I've been looking up the grammar stuff all year to support her homework.

Apart from her knowing the basics (noun, adverb etc) I have decided not to spend any additional time on the SPAG stuff with her. I would rather work on comprehension skills and basic numeracy which she will need across all subjects at secondary.

So although in an ideal world knowing more grammar than the basics would be good preparation for MFLs, for where she is now it is in no way a priority.

Actually having it as a 'L6' paper would be not a bad idea. An extension for more able kids, but let the others sort out more critical stuff.

Got 80%!

I learned English as a second language, but I also remember spending lots of time at school learning grammar in my first language which was then useful when learning other languages.

DS1 is learning all these grammar terms currently (Y2), and it is quite useful to have this knowledge that he can then apply when we do some work at home in his other language.

It is also quite useful when I am teaching MFL to children as they have a reference point for learning grammar in another language.

Although, I admit it seems unfair if the current Y6 children that didn't get to spend as much time with the new curriculum are expected to sit an exam testing things they didn't have a proper chance to learn. The current Y2 children should be in a better position as they are already getting familiar with most of the terminology and how the elements of speech work.

90% by guesswork and deduction; O Level English Language and Maths Degree. Adult son 50%; O Level Eng. Lang. and Medical Degree. Can't see the Y6s I used to teach scoring very highly,

I got 50% I was quite pleased with that as I have never been taught these terms. I gave it to dd year 7 she got 65%.

In other countries children learn all this at a very young age as well, nobody cares and nobody minds, but here people get into such a panic about it! I agree that if you go by questioning what knowledge is needed in later life you can't really sort out a curriculum. Those who say schools should teach skills not facts - how exactly would that translate into an average school day?

Not in such detail or at such a young age.

The Y6s will all be taught to pass the stupid test, so they'll be fine.

Meanwhile they won't develop actual writing and comprehension skills. It's clearly much more important that they learn to give technical names to randomness bits of sentences.

Of course schools should and do teach skills. Reading is a skill. Comprehension is a skill. Writing is a skill. Mathematical computation is a skill. They're all skills because once learned you can apply them flexibly to achieve a range of ends.

Pointing at the sentence and knowing it's got something called a 'modal verb' is not useful, especially if you don't actually know how to use one in your speech or writing. And lots of people can use them and understand how they alter the meaning of a sentence without being able to apply the label. Being able to apply the label doesn't make them better readers or writers.

It's also quite annoying because it ignores the complexity of language and the considerable debate about all sorts of issues within linguistics. Instead we get a painting by numbers approach to the entire thing.

30% and I have an English Literature degree. DD (year 6) got 80% which suggests to me that her teacher has been doing a lot of work on this.

Yep, they'll all be fine for the SPAG.

They will very much not be fine for the writing assessment, which is way beyond the maturity of your average Y6 writer, coming in at around an old 5c.

Feenie what do they have to do in the writing task?

It's not a task, rather a teacher assessment of their day to day written work.

And it's pitched far too high.

Here's the link:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/interim-frameworks-for-teacher-assessment-at-the-end-of-key-stage-2

70%. Swotty cow.