Have a go at the key stage 2 grammar SATS.

[neolara]

Have a go at this mini Key Stage 2 SATs test.

See if you'd pass.

I think it's incredibly important that all 10 year olds know what subordinating conjunctions, modal verbs and determiners are because I use these terms on a daily basis in my actual daily grown up life.

In fact, I'm delighted that my kids will be spending more time learning to label parts of speech and consequently less time on largely irrelevant stuff like computer programming, art, developing social skills, music, history, geography etc. The sort of things that barely impacts on my actual daily grown up life as I work alongside other people, use computers every day, travel, work as a social scientist, appreciate a wide range of cultural experiences such as music on the radio, plays, art galleries .......

While I totally get the need for kids to learn good spelling, punctuation and grammar, somehow I can't get my head round the feeling that things have just gone nuts. Firstly, learning to label grammar parts is not the same as learning to use good grammar. Secondly, learning to label grammar parts at the expense of learning all the other much more useful stuff seems crazy.

So does the Oxford dictionary:

www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/exclamation-mark

Still, I'm sure you and the dfe know best.

The second link defines the use of the exclamation mark, so something completely different.

The first gives an example beginning with what but without a noun, which should be included, I agree.

Nowhere do I see proof that you can just write He won! And declare it an exclamatory sentence.

I think you mean 'without a verb', Dorothy. Easy to get mixed up, isn't it? Especially if you are 6.

You could just write .."Help!" Or "Oh!" Or "Stop!"

Yes I do and of course it is. Never doubted it.

Very easy to get mixed up on times tables. So why bother learning them?

Have you actually read what people have said?

No, it isn't, Dorothy - because the answers to times tables are clear, unambiguous and not decided arbitrarily by the dfe and some random mfl teacher from the internet.

I've apologised for misunderstandings, I've conceded points, I have tried to defend my viewpoint, what comes back are venom and insults.

Btw mrz, Oh! is an interjection, Help! and Stop! are imperatives. So they are not exclamatory sentences.

Have not read the entire thread, but I got 100% :)

You tried to say the dodgy exclamatory sentence aspect of the Y2 curriculum was as confusing as times tables, I explained why they're completely different.

'Venom and insults' is an odd thing to say in response.

The only time anyone got remotely shirty was when one poster insinuated that primary teachers were too thick to understand the grammar to teach it, and when you came dangerously close to saying the same.

Yes and exclamatory!
"An exclamatory sentence is a sentence that expresses great emotion such as excitement, surprise, happiness and anger, and ends with an exclamation point."

If the examples on the Cambridge dictionary link are not "exclamatory sentences" as suggested, then what are they? How do you call them? (it's a genuine question, I'm just curious).
"Oh, no!" and "What a large dog!"

And the second link (Oxford dictionary) says "the main use of the exclamation mark is to end sentences that express an exclamation: Ow! That hurt! or Hello! How are you?".
So it is saying that those examples that do not start with What or How and some don't even have a verb, are exclamatory sentences. Are they? And if they are not, what are they called then?

So calling me a random mfl teacher on the internet is polite?

There is a huge difference between 'He won.' and 'He won!' It's not just sticking an exclamation mark on the end. The exclamation mark changes the whole tone of the sentence (and how you read it). 'He won.' is a declarative sentence. 'He won!' is exclamatory.

You'd tell whether it is an appropriately exclamatory sentence from context, but from picking out some arbitrary rule about starting with how or what.

You are a random MFL teacher on the Internet. I'm a random academic on the Internet. That's just a description not an insult.

You can say Would you stop please? is a command just like Stop!, but only one is grammatically in the imperative.

How about asking me if I actually read the thread, or whether I was keeping up - polite?

I agree that a good knowledge of English grammar (which I didn't learn at school as it wasn't the trend then) would have been very useful in learning foreign languages. We were taught foreign languages in the expectation we'd already know what the grammatical terms meant from English.

But be aware that the site has skewed the questions to make sure parents will get low scores, be scared and order their products for their DCs

Yes, I agree.

Yes. That's polite. Presumably the content of your posts meant that it wasn't clear to whoever asked you whether you were keeping up with the thread, so they asked you if you were.

If they'd wanted to be rude, there are many other options.

You do seem to lose the thread of the conversation a lot, and so at times seem just to be arguing for the sake of it instead of answering specific points about your posts. So no, I wouldn't class that as venomous or insulting really.

Actually I asked if you'd read what people had posted not if you'd read the thread as you continue to argue about teaching grammar when people have continually told you that teaching isn't an issue but testing is

So to summarise, I am completely in the wrong on every level.

Pretty much!

I can come and post things on a secondary mfl thread if it would make you feel better.