What state primaries in London to get into top private secondaries?

[newbieLdn]

We’re thinking of buying a house in London within a year or two. Baby's on the way, hopefully followed by second at some point.

We’d love for the kids to eventually go to Oxbridge, but will not really have the money for top-class private education for both kids for the whole 14 years. Or put it differently, even if we do think we have the money now, we may not have it in the future. We figured it’d be more sensible to put aside some funds for really good secondaries in the future, and in the short term, buy a property in a catchment area of a really good primary. This is, at the moment, the best we can afford. I’d definitely want to avoid the kids the trauma of being taken out of a good private school that they already got used to because daddy can now no longer pay the tuition fees, etc.

Initially, we thought they’d go to really good state primaries and secondaries; but looking at Oxbridge acceptance rates, it seems that all the top schools are private, at least in London and South East they are…

Does our plan sound sensible? I want to stress we’re both quite academically-oriented, and will always strive to help kids with homework, read them stories at bedtime, etc.

A friend of mine insists that at the top secondaries (the likes of Eton, Westminster, St Pauls) majority of students come from private primary schools, ideally – a prep school affiliated with the given secondary. Is it really that difficult to get into these top schools from good state or religious primaries? And which state/religious primaries in London would you recommend?

We were thinking of buying in Islington or Putney/Wandsworth/Southfields/Wimbledon; some place close to the Tube for our commutes. But we’re very open to suggestions!

Oh boy!! baby not even born yet and it's destined for Oxbridge.

What about which school might be best for your child - fit best with their style of learning, characteristics, interests, talents and ability?

what about if your child I know on MN it is rare but isn't of the top academic ability?

what about if your child doesn't want to go to Oxbridge, or even uni full stop?

In any case, schools can change incredibly quickly - what may be good now, may not be in 5 years, 10 years time. And catchment areas in London for state schools can be incredibly small.

ok Seeline, you may say that. But we're just about to buy a house - it's a massive financial commitment, and with the increased stamp duty, agent's fees, etc, it's unlikely we'll have the chance/money to move again 3 or 5 years later. So I'd like to make that purchase such that we keep the most options open. IMO choosing a good school does not necessarily have to lead to Oxbridge, but it's the best way of ensuring that whatever the child chooses to be in the future, whatever their interest, he/she will be able to pursue those interests with the greatest possible chance of success.

So back on subject...

Seriously? I think choice of parents will have much greater bearing on your unborn child's Oxbridge chances than choice of school. The single greatest factor influencing educational outcomes at 16 is paternal income.

Personally, if I was in your situation I would move into a grammar school area. If you've got an adequate primary your chances of getting into a good secondary are pretty similar to those at an outstanding primary, as success is usually down to tutoring and parental input.

What's your budget for a house?

The premium on being close enough to a good primary can be enormous. I would suggest Between The Commons for either Honeywell or Belleville, but that's a useless suggestion if you want a house but don't have £1m to spend.

Depends how much money you have - if you don;t want to bankrupt yourself buying a house in SW london and paying for private secondary schools, I'd recommend looking for somewhere with competenet state secondaries (yes there are plenty!) and pay for tuition if your child looks like they might be academic enough for oxbridge.

My sister paid for a couple of decades of private schooling between her 3 and only 1 ended up at an Oxbridge college.

If they're smart enough they could get into a Grammar in which case consider Kingston (and more tuition)

Be careful about saying things like I want to stress we’re both quite academically-oriented, and will always strive to help kids with homework, read them stories at bedtime, etc. in real life, as it tends to imply that people who aren't "academic" (I presume this is the usual euphemism for intelligent) don't also do this for their children.

And yes Edith is right - Richmond area £750,000 will buy you an average sized 3 bed semi (if you're lucky)

Why don't you buy somewhere cheaper and save your money for school fees?

And just to get things in perspective 57% of Oxford and 63% of Cambridge entrants come from state schools

No state school is going to prepare for the 11+, you will need a tutor for that. Assuming that the system hasn't changes by then! muswell hill and crouch end have good primaries but, as everywhere, tiny catchments. What is yoir budget for a house? How much are you prepared to compromise to be near a good school- no garden, less rooms, flat instead of house etc?

Seriously? People plan their child's education path before it's even born or even conceived?

Why not Kent or Bucks - grammar schools.

Words fail me. And that doesn't happen very often.

If you're child is bright enough and they get the right help at home any primary school will do fine.

I'm thinking of BIL who went to local primary that swings btw Satisfactory/Good. Did some prep at home with parents and got into a top London school on full scholarship and then went to Cambridge. DH got in to same school but not on scholarship as not as bright. (Didn't go to Cambridge). There is only so much that you as a parent can control this I'm afraid.

What if your children don't want to go to "Oxbridge" in 19+ years time?

Then Mintyy they'll put on a brave face and pretend that they're fine with any old Russell Group Uni.

My nieces and nephews moved in those circles - in fact one of the exact schools OP has mentioned. There were children every year suffering mental health issues as a result of failing to keep up at school - tutoring might get you in but its a relentless hamster wheel if you're frankly a bit mediocre. Even my lovely (and very able) nephew came out of school believing he was really rather mediocre - once removed from the pressure at school he has blossomed both at university and now work.

Who will put on a brave face?

What if ops children don't want to go to University at all?

She doesn't seem to have grasped that by the time they are 18 they will be adults and can do whatever they choose in life.

You're being given a bit of a hard time here OP. I can understand your thought processes, I too went down that road a few years ago...

I have a few suggestions which I know are going to get some MNers clutching their pearls

• move into a grammar area, then pay for tutoring for 11+
• find God. A catholic one, preferably.
• find the top performing state secondaries in London, and move next door. It's easy to get a decent primary education in London, it's the secondary school that is a worry.

Good luck!

Who will put on a brave face?

OP will.

You're being given a bit of a hard time here OP to be fair "We’d love for the kids to eventually go to Oxbridge" and we're academic so we'll read them bed-time stories is difficult to resist.

Ok, thanks everyone for replies.

A few words of clarification.

"Poor kid, not yet born, forced to go to Oxbridge already" etc. We're not British. Where I come from, it was sort of assumed in the family that you'd aim for whatever best is out there, in your field of interest. Same for my partner. Didn't make either of us unhappy, quite the contrary I'd say. So when it came to choosing the right university, we both aimed, in our respective fields, for the best in the country. I'd love for the admission criteria to be as straightforward here as they were back home - you study hard, you pass the exams with good grades and are in. But as I understand, Oxbridge do assess things like presentation; they do interiews; etc. So it's not as easy for a bright and ambitious kid but without the inside knowledge of how the system works to get accepted. Could be mistaken though?

Second thing. Planning things so early. I mentioned the house purchase. Prices in London, as we know, are insane. We have to plan this carefully, as we may not be able to afford to move yet again later. Do we go for a "worse" area and save some £ to pay for private fees? Or pay the high (didnt know it was that high? How much really?) premium for catchment area and rely on state schools? I'd imagine, given how small those catchment areas are, that houses only occassionally come on the market there? So it's a game of register your interest with the agent, then wait a year or two for the right property to become available. But maybe it's a stupid strategy, as someone pointed out here, what is a good school now may not be in the future, so I'd be paying a premium for something that I won't want to use later, anyway?

And thinking of the choice of secondary before kid is born. Again, I found it pretty unusual that people do that in this country when I first moved here; but at those top secondaries that's how it works, right? Westminster etc? Back home every secondary was selective. So if you were bright, you worked hard, passed the exams, and were one of the lucky candidates who got accepted to the best high school in the city. Both my partner and I were from humble backgrounds, and we both did, each in their own city.

Budget for the house is £1.5-1.7mln I hope that'd be plenty, but the house has to be future-proof, as in 4 beds minimum.

and to be doubly fair, others (including me) have made those suggestions already whilst being a tad cynical about the expectations of currently non-existent DC's - not the mention the lack of understanding that 2/3rds of Oxbridge entrants are state.

Tatler deems Boufield to be the best state primary in London in 2015 SW5 0DJ

There's a 4 bed flat for sale near there at £1.6m www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-51381709.html?premiumA=true

There you go job done!

Odd - that flat appears to have only 1 toilet - for £1.6m!

Kew considering that only 7% of British kids are private educated, their Oxbridge intake is astounding. If 93% of our kids are state educated, I would have wanted our State Oxbridge intake to be much higher.