What state primaries in London to get into top private secondaries?

[newbieLdn]

We’re thinking of buying a house in London within a year or two. Baby's on the way, hopefully followed by second at some point.

We’d love for the kids to eventually go to Oxbridge, but will not really have the money for top-class private education for both kids for the whole 14 years. Or put it differently, even if we do think we have the money now, we may not have it in the future. We figured it’d be more sensible to put aside some funds for really good secondaries in the future, and in the short term, buy a property in a catchment area of a really good primary. This is, at the moment, the best we can afford. I’d definitely want to avoid the kids the trauma of being taken out of a good private school that they already got used to because daddy can now no longer pay the tuition fees, etc.

Initially, we thought they’d go to really good state primaries and secondaries; but looking at Oxbridge acceptance rates, it seems that all the top schools are private, at least in London and South East they are…

Does our plan sound sensible? I want to stress we’re both quite academically-oriented, and will always strive to help kids with homework, read them stories at bedtime, etc.

A friend of mine insists that at the top secondaries (the likes of Eton, Westminster, St Pauls) majority of students come from private primary schools, ideally – a prep school affiliated with the given secondary. Is it really that difficult to get into these top schools from good state or religious primaries? And which state/religious primaries in London would you recommend?

We were thinking of buying in Islington or Putney/Wandsworth/Southfields/Wimbledon; some place close to the Tube for our commutes. But we’re very open to suggestions!

There are places in London with preps for under 10k but you need to be in zone 3/4 and for that price you sacrifice facilities but they exist. 1.2 - 1.5m would get a you a lovely 4/5 bed in Crouch End/Muswell Hill/East Finchley. Those areas also are in good proximity to some of the best grammars in the country should money become an issue later. They also have consistently excellent primaries in the state sector. What those areas lack is choice for prep schools so you would have to tread carefully. West London beats North London for choice.

Plenty of 4 bedders in Balham for 1.25mill, smaller mortgage send them to Hornsby House. Feeds in DC, Whitgift, Trinity, Alleyns, Jags and Emanuel. All perfectly fine secondaries.

"and that a really good prep school just outside of this top 10 would cost around £10k per year"

Not in London it won't. I've just looked up Parkgate House (small prep on edge of Clapham Common; small, local, friendly) and it's over £4k per term. Go along the Common a bit to Eaton House the Manor and it's over £4k a term for pre-prep fees, and over £5.8k for prep. That's a 'known' prep, in that it sends boys to good destination schools, including some to the big names, every year.

I don't know what you mean by 'top 10' prep schools, but to throw in a few more Hornsby House £4.8k, Dulwich Junior School £6k, Dulwich Prep £5.6k, Colet Court £6k, Garden House £7.1, Hill House £4.3k, Thomas Clapham £6.1.

Seriously, it's a minimum of £12-15k per child at any London prep these days, and allow 5% fees inflation. The figures I've quoted are the 15/16 fees.

"Presumably, school fee inflation will be in-line with growth of our assets and/or income."

Past performance is of course no indicator of the future, as they say in the ads.

But school fee inflation would have to stall almost completely to fall back to typical earnings inflation, and dip considerably to go to the level of other assets indices. Seriously, it's way ahead of just about every other index you can think of. So when all other investments are at under 1%, it was at about 5%. Do not count on other assets keeping up. Though a career where you expect substantial promotion might do so.

It may be worth seeing an IFA about best ways of investing to underpin school fees.

'fine secondaries' Tween?

I should hope that they're better than 'fine', considering the fees they all charge.

Strange that you don't mention Graveney when recommending a Wandsworth suburb.

Leavers destinations for Graveney

Good Oxbridge success there and it's a state school.

Why would a Balhamite not have a stab at getting there if they had Oxbridge ambitions?

Disclaimer: I have no connection with Graveney whatsoever but I am in at the strange assumptions and prejudices on this thread.

Good Oxbridge success there and it's a state school AND it's only partially selective, in fact

"Why would a Balhamite not have a stab at getting there if they had Oxbridge ambitions?"

Because unless they secure one of the selective places (via the Wandsworth test) they live far, far too far away. For a non-sibling, the greatest distance offered is usually around 500m (and shrinking).

But it does have a Sixth Form entry, which covers a greater footprint.

Every Wandsworth parent I've ever met with an able (or even average TBH) child gives it a go Edith.

I can't imagine a parent fixated on Oxbridge NOT trying for a place there.

In SW London, it is not unusual for a DC to sit 3 or 4 or even as many as 7 or 8 11+ entrance exams including the Wandsworth test. There's no downside if you're happy with that intensity of testing.

quite frankly, I've found this thread rather depressing. Some posters have been crucifying me for my assumptions, so please understand; we're both from outside of the UK, and we're both from backgrounds where education was always valued as key. And whatever it was you wanted to do; be it sciences, literature, law, medicine, etc; as a teenager, you aimed for the top university in the country in that field. Can't see anything wrong with that. I got the impression that in the UK, the top faculties are fairly concentrated between Oxford and Cambridge, in the sense that there isn't "the" university for medicine that would be different from Oxbridge, or "the" university for sciences, another for PPE, etc; if you want to aim for the best, Oxbridge sort of ends up being the default. So it's not so much the case of us planning the kids' future in detail before they're born; more the general assumption that we'll instill in them the same ambition for excellence in whatever field of interest they choose to pursue, be it humanities, music, sciences, whatever their passion will end up being. And if our kids will now have these 2 amazing, world-class universities on their doorstep, and will speak the language as mother tongue, it would be a great waste not to use this opportunity. Especially that on top of academic achievement, all Oxbridge graduates that I've met over the course of my life here in the UK were, almost without exception, fantastically bright, open-minded and with great friendships from said universities, so the benefits of graduating from Oxbridge clearly go far beyond just obtaining top-class education, let alone fulfilling their parents' neurotic ambitions or whatever it was that some posters here implied.

We'll look into SW London and Finchley/Muswell Hill areas now. Budget can be stretched to say £1.8-2.0mln, but again, being from outside the UK we've always assumed it prudent to put aside some money for the rainy day and not spend everything we have on property, although with London prices it can be hard. We'd like to get 4 bedrooms for that, more if possible. Ideally, a modern house/townhouse of around 2000 sq ft. I understand now that I may have to look as far afield as e.g. Sevenoaks. Although in the past I've looked at Southfields or New Malden and there were plenty of 2000 sq ft houses on the market for 1.25mln; between the Commons the going rate for a 4-bed seems to be 1.5mln. Hence my assumption that in a good catchment area, the very same houses shouldn't cost more than 1.7mln, but clearly I'm mistaken.

I moved away a little while ago. But agree that nearly every DC in the borough, and a lot from outside it, sit the Wandsworth test. Most don't pass.

And it's quite a specific test isn't it? The candidates have to crunch through an enormous number of questions in an almost unfeasibly short amount of time. Obviously the school/borough like the pool of pupils it produces, but it's not really like the tests for private schools.

I got the impression that in the UK, the top faculties are fairly concentrated between Oxford and Cambridge

An 'impression'? Yes, I plan my life based on those all the time.

in the sense that there isn't "the" university for medicine that would be different from Oxbridge, or "the" university for sciences, another for PPE, etc; if you want to aim for the best, Oxbridge sort of ends up being the default. So it's not so much the case of us planning the kids' future in detail before they're born; more the general assumption that we'll instill in them the same ambition for excellence in whatever field of interest they choose to pursue, be it humanities, music, sciences, whatever their passion will end up being. And if our kids will now have these 2 amazing, world-class universities on their doorstep, and will speak the language as mother tongue, it would be a great waste not to use this opportunity.

I remember that UCL and Imperial were name-checked upthread. I CBA to scroll up and check because I'm starting to think you're on a mission to wind people up.

all Oxbridge graduates that I've met over the course of my life here in the UK were, almost without exception, fantastically bright, open-minded and with great friendships from said universities, so the benefits of graduating from Oxbridge clearly go far beyond just obtaining top-class education, let alone fulfilling their parents' neurotic ambitions or whatever it was that some posters here implied

Yes; Wind-up. Or unspeakably crass. Or both.

Please leave the top 4 or 5 UK universities to those who truly value education and don't view them as blinged-up country clubs.

I'm out.

I moved away a little while ago. But agree that nearly every DC in the borough, and a lot from outside it, sit the Wandsworth test. Most don't pass.

Of course but scary OP somehow knows her neonate is destined for Oxbridge. That'll improve the chances

OP: OK, the distances admitted to Belleville and Honeywell are scarily small, and it is possible to live Between The Commons and not get an initial offer from either, but you can reasonably expect to squiggle in via the waiting list if you live in the main bloc (ideally east of Northcote Road, similar circumference to N and S).

But your most recent post suggests you see that area as not having good state primaries, so I'm now a bit stumped about what you're after.

Absolutely I see between the Commons as having great state primaries; I was making the point that even in an expensive catchment area like that 4-beds can be had for £1.5mln

We can argue about fee inflation but pp has it correct that it is typically well over inflation or any interest rate you may get on your investments. To give you an illustration while interest rates and inflation have been at an all time low, secondary fees at dc school have risen about 20% like-for-like over past 5 years and that is a school with below average increases in suburbia.

It is possibly worth thinking about the fact that less than 1% of each cohort of 18 year olds will go to Oxbridge - but 2.5% of children have a statement of SEN, and 2% have a learning disability.

Statistically, it is therefore more probable that you will be seeking a school for your unborn / unconceived children with an excellent record for children with special educational needs than one that can smooth the path to Oxbridge....

Nothing to stop you needing both for the same child of course.....

Of course. I was just thinking as i posted it that the most recent Oxbridge entrant I know has had a statement since a very early age and spent their primary years in the sensory impairment unit attached to a local primary.

Honeywell school; lots of children get into very good secondaries including Alleyn's

Dulwich Village is another good area

Gosh- an awful lot of overthinking and hysteria in this thread. OP- you have a nice healthy budget to buy a house in a very nice area of London with nice state primaries. Your DC may end up at Oxbridge or may not but I really wouldn't worry about it too much or you will have so much angst for the next 18 years. Most people I know of lately who went to Oxbridge were at state secondaries but they all had supportive parents who valued education. I also know of a lot of bright sixth formers who actively chose not to apply as the courses they wanted to do were better at other universities.
I would just choose somewhere where you'd like to live that has good state schools and possibly look at paying for secondary schools. Apart from the likes of St Pauls' and Westminster etc most other schools seem to send a similar percentage to Oxbridge and most SW London private secondaries will be able to prepare your child if that is the right place for them. All capable of a string of A+.

Newbie, I find your arrogance and superiority quite irritating. Lots of us who have been paying tax into the UK system for the last 20 years plus would also love our kids to go to Oxbridge but are well aware how competitive it is. My kids are at an "outstanding" primary and I will do what I can to get them the best education possible but have not fixated on one route or one path in life. How unhealthy for them??? What if they are not academic? Seriously, get a life and temper your expectations a little.

Oh and I applied to Oxford, passed the entrance exam, failed the interview. Ended up at another good university. Hasn't stopped me having a great city career and earning 6 figures.

CandyCrush, sorry but I can't take seriously someone who lists "earning 6 figures in the city" as their livetime achievement, and implies me being a foreigner and not "paying 20+ years" into the system" as grounds for calling me arrogant.