Question for teachers. If a child has a statement, would you ignore it if you belived it wasn't justified?

[2boysnamedR]

That, in nutshell.

Son has a statement via winning a appeal. Head of village school said I won it as parents have money and the LA doesn't ( not true or fair I feel. In my case I won with no solicitor against the la rep with law degree ( ex legal firm worker).

My sons in a different school so I doubt my head would say this to my face. But. I'm pretty sure they don't agree with the dessision. They do some things really well, other things not so good but overall I get the impression there's bad will that I didn't listen to the school and did this.

If a child had a statement for ASD would / do some teachers think "he's just naughty, he needs a firm hand"

I am not going to judge or bash any ideas. Surely some people must think like this? I don't want to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

Charis1, each school has been given the child's address on entry: the child wouldn't have been given a place otherwise. In a few cases, that address may be false or out of date, but for the purposes of assigning statutory responsibility for the child, that will be the operative address.

The operative phrase here being "on entry"

and yes, "on entry" some addresses may be false or out of date, and within weeks many more will be, and within a year, a huge % will be, and in many cases it will be impossible to establish either way, anyway.

OurBlanche I rather liked personal budgets!

Jeeves Charis iniially had it the other wa around, that statements are no longer enforcible and are meaningless.

New statements were still being issued last year in cases where the process was started in the previous year (and are still being finalised where the process has been delayed by appeal, as in the case of he OP). DS2 is in year 5 and has not been transferred to EHCP yet - he's due in the Spring term. DS1's EHCP has only just been completed - he's starting year 7, next week, so was on the initial transfer list. Kids who already have statements are generally keeping them until they reach a natural transition, point, though, rather than everyone changing over at once.

Of course the LA has up to date lists of which children have statements. They have to have them for Ofsted purposes and because they have an awful lot of statutory duties surrounding statements.

Apologies Purple ( not that there is a need to apologise for being a pushy parent-every child should have one!). I think I am being overwhelmed with some of the stupidity being spouted on here!

Just to reassure OP though, as the informed majority of us are saying, the statement is a legally enforceable document that must be implemented in whichever setting the DC is in. It's not a case of saying "perfect world/funding blah blah blah" the law is clear on this point and cannot be overruled by the odd teachers with a superiority complex, or who are just ignorant.

The whole system is fucked up

yes, I hundred percent agree with this. And what ever people say, most teachers sweat blood to give the best possible chances to their pupils, in spite of everything.

Of course the LA has up to date lists of which children have statements

sorry, but they just don't.

The LA issues the bloody statements, Charis!

There is no point in trying to discuss this with you, you have absolutely no idea!

yes, I hundred percent agree with this. And what ever people say, most teachers sweat blood to give the best possible chances to their pupils, in spite of everything.

Not that you are acting the martyr or anything...

Again, it is a nonsense to say that huge percentage of pupils' addresses in all areas of the country will be out of date within a year of entry. I suspect it isn't true even in those areas of London where there is a higher degree of population mobility, if only because most parents do actually want their children's schools to have their contact details and let them know when they move.

But, even if they don't, that's irrelevant. If you as a teacher have a child in your class whose parent says they have a statement and you don't have that document, you ask them for a copy; or you phone the LA applicable for the address you have to get a copy. If they tell you the child no longer lives there, you ask the parents or indeed the child where they live. It's not rocket science. And if you are going to tell me that thousands of parents and children routinely lie or refuse to divulge their address, I'm afraid I won't believe you.

She's certainly acting!!!

Not that you are acting the martyr or anything...

Thank God, I am not a teacher any more, but as an outside observer the abuse of teachers by the system is even clearer to me.

Insanity nope. I have not said that at all. I can assure you that you have misunderstood what I have said. That despite the fact that I have not typed any absolute statements but have qualified them, as appropriate.

You are judging me by someone elses actions, not fair of you to make such a generalisation, especially when I have explained myself, more than once.

What you mean by watertight I do not know, I interpret it as meaning what it says goes, and I disagree with that as it does not allow for a teacher to have any input that would require changes as a child grows and develops. Hence my having said that I work hard to ensure that a statement does not become a straightjacket - and that I work with SENCO etc etc.

But your assertion that I seem to think I can make a judgement on the contents of a statement is damned right. And you had better hope that most teachers do feel that they can do as such. If not how the hell does any statement change and develop with your child? THAT is the point I have been trying to make... you don't have to believe it, but it is true...regardless of how you choose to interpret it based on one teacher you disagreed with.

You are probably right regarding that one teacher, but then you had a direct relationship with her. I have not even tried to say that there are no teachers like that out there, but not all teachers who question the contents of a statement are vainglorous idiots.

capsium you do now you shouldn't spend it on gin, don't you

Charis1, what worries me is that it sounds from what you say as if you work in some of the more deprived areas of London which have the highest percentage of very vulnerable pupils and more pupil mobility. Those are the pupils who have the most need of the protections set out in their statements or EHCPs. If those boroughs are being advised by someone with as much disregard of the law as you have, those children are going to lose out even more. And that is, quite simply, wrong.

Ouryve, I know there were some statements going through the system last September which were issued after the new law came into force, but those have all gone through by now. Charis1 seems to think some boroughs are still issuing new statements now, which is of course incorrect.

you ask them for a copy - brilliant! why didn't I THINK OF THAT! And if there are no contact details, or they don't speak English, or they say no, or they have lost it, or forget, or lie?????

And if you are going to tell me that thousands of parents and children routinely lie or refuse to divulge their address, I'm afraid I won't believe you. then you are very very nieve!

There was in fact a lot of fuss in the media and politics last term, if you remember, when it came out that an LA ( I think in Birmingham) had a mismatch of 400 pupils, in other words, 400 teenagers were missing, from a small group of I think 5 schools, and there was a big outcry, in case the had gone to join ISIS, and then it came out that most metropolitan LAs had similar mismatches.... this was only last term, just before the summer holidays, when there was this big thing about schools and LAs not being able to keep up to date records on the where abouts of children.

OurBlanche obviously, since champagne is more my tipple!

The LA issues the bloody statements, Charis mostly no!

Mine haven't for years, they may have had a hand in administrating other people's statements, but like I said, they don't carry much weight.

Do you have any idea what a Statement of Special Needs is!!

*What does statementing mean?

A statement of special needs is a formal document detailing a child's learning difficulties and the help that will be given.

If your child needs help at school - beyond what their teachers can provide - a 'statement of special needs' will ensure they get the right help. A statement is only necessary if the school is unable to meet a child's needs on its own.

Only around 2 per cent of children need a statement. You shouldn't assume that because your child has special learning needs, that they necessarily need a statement.
How are statements given?

The first stage in the process is called a statutory assessment, which is carried out by the local authority. This is a detailed investigation into your child's learning needs. The school or a parent can ask for a statutory assessment. If a school asks for one, they must inform the parents.

After a request for an assessment, the local authority has six weeks to decide whether to go ahead. During this time it will seek the views of the parents and the school.

If an assessment is necessary, the local authority will then seek the views of:

your child's school
an educational psychologist
a doctor
social services (if your child is known to them)
the parents 

You will be told within 12 weeks whether or not a statement will be made. If it is, you'll be shown a draft and asked for any comments.

If you disagree with the local authority's decision you can appeal - how to do this will be explained in the local authority's letter.

If a statement is made, it will be in six parts. These are:

Name and contact details of your child
Details of your child's SEN
What help your child should get, and learning goals
What part your child's school will play
Your child's non-educational needs
How these non-educational needs will be met

What happens after my child has a statement?

Once your child has a statement, you have a right to say which school they should attend. The local authority will send you details of suitable schools in your area. Some may be special schools, but most will probably be mainstream schools because the education system aims to meet most special needs within this setting.

The local authority must check your child's progress at least once a year after a statement is made. This annual review includes a meeting with parents, who can take a friend or adviser with them if they want to.

If necessary, changes will be made to your child's statement after the annual review.*

Just for Charis!!

Do you have any idea what a Statement of Special Needs is!! do you have any idea how many are flying about, how many are worthless, how many are worth something, how many are missing, how many children with severe SEN don't have one..... I am explaining the bigger picture here, as I was asked to do by the OP

well give us the exact figures then, Charis.

Also, who else issues statements/EHCPs?