Question for teachers. If a child has a statement, would you ignore it if you belived it wasn't justified?

[2boysnamedR]

That, in nutshell.

Son has a statement via winning a appeal. Head of village school said I won it as parents have money and the LA doesn't ( not true or fair I feel. In my case I won with no solicitor against the la rep with law degree ( ex legal firm worker).

My sons in a different school so I doubt my head would say this to my face. But. I'm pretty sure they don't agree with the dessision. They do some things really well, other things not so good but overall I get the impression there's bad will that I didn't listen to the school and did this.

If a child had a statement for ASD would / do some teachers think "he's just naughty, he needs a firm hand"

I am not going to judge or bash any ideas. Surely some people must think like this? I don't want to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

You are just becoming more and more fanciful! Do you have ANY idea what an annual statement review consists of?

Well London doesn't narrow it down does it?

Oh, it's London in LaLa land isn't it....

And if anyone thinks that last sentence is unwarranted:

I had a student whose very thick Ed Psych report said that being asked to do even simple mental maths would reduce him to a shivering wreck. He needed 1-2-1 support and understanding if he should get angry in maths classes.

Well, he could do any calc you wanted, very quickly with or without a calculator and only ever got angry if his TA tried to help him.

We spoke to him and he said he had had trouble with maths when he was about 7 and his mum had insisted he had all sorts of help with it. In truth he had caught up quite quickly, but his mum wouldn't hear him. So he played up to it. It was only when he got to us, FE, that he saw how much impact that had had on his ability to get on the course he really wanted. So he just got on with it - got a B in his GCSE, that after his school had refused him a resit.

I know my job meant I met more of them than most teachers would, but they do exist. And there are many colleagues who work with students like this all the time.

It really isn't as simple as here are the rules, work to them! Or here is the statement, follow it blindly.

Charis obviously the LA which issued the statement.

Tbh, yes, what you have said is shocking, as it shows such total disregard for the law and education of children with additional needs. I mean I come across somewhat shoddy practice before but never like this...

Yes do keep talking Charis as it's becoming more and more obvious you simply do not have a scooby what you're talking about. Your posts are laughable. I note you don't say which LEAs you work for.

And surely any teacher with half a brain would wonder why the alleged statemented child wasn't receiving annual reviews?
we still run annual reviews, even if no one can lay hands on a statement, even if the child is known to have no statement, even if we simply don't know if the child is statemented or not.

I'm sorry, but that is utter rubbish The annual review process requires initially that the LA writes to the school giving a list of children in the school with statements/EHCPs that are due for review that term, and the school is asked to set put the annual review, inviting the parents and any relevant parents. Two weeks beforehand it must circulate reports prepared for the annual review. During the meeting the participants are required specifically to consider the terms of the statement/EHCP and advise whether it is still needed, and, if it is, whether it remains relevant or requires amendment. If no-one can lay hands on the statement, all the school has to do is get a copy off the LA. After the meeting the school is required to send a formal report to the LA and parents which deals with the statutory requirements.

Only the most utterly shambolic of schools would carry out that process without knowing whether the child even has a statement and without being asked to hold the AR by the LA; yet you, Charis1, are saying that every school that you work in or have ever worked in is exactly as shambolic as that.

I don't believe it. I think the only charitable explanation for what you say is that the reality is that, since you are only a supply teacher, you have no idea how the system works.

Charis may well be all you say, but the scenarios s/he sets up are only too real. They represent the reality we sometime meet in the classroom, not always, but sometimes.

It does no good to exclaim about laws, illegality etc when you are talking about the capacity of one human being to deal with mountains of paperwork that sometimes is utterly meaningless at that time, in that place.

a) there isn't enough time in any one week to be 100% to the letter
b) sometimes the statements are a bit 'pie in the sky'
c) if a teacher wants to modify a statement, having observed and worked with a student, there are some fairly large barriers to overcome

and lots of other human issues that can confound the best practice.

The question was, do we act on the statement, even if we disagree with it.

The answer, in my situation is-

If a child has a statement, and if the school has access to it, and if I am provided with a summary of it, I will read it.

If it is feasible in reality, I will try out the recommendations.

If a child has SEN, and I have any access to any summary of their previous history, I will read it and if it is feasible in reality, I will try out any recommendations.

if a child has SEN and no educational records at all, they will still get as much input as any other child with SEN, they won't be in any way disadvantaged because of having no educational records.

What people just done't seem to understand is the filing cabinets full of drawers of paper records is not only too much to read, but also largely unhelpful and irrelevant, there are thousands of children with statements and thousands of children without, and the one group has no more needs than the other. A statement generally means you have a pushy parent and have happened to land somewhere that still issues them. its not nothing, but it is only an indicator, it can only be an indicator, that is what it is.

doesn't bother to check - again, a departure from reality, I'd like to hear your suggestions about how I check, and WHY????

You check very easily by phoning or emailing the LA SEN department and saying "Mrs Bloggs says Johnny has a statement but I don't seem to have a copy. Would you mind checking whether he has and, if so, sending me one?" LAs have all these things online, it would be the work of a moment to deal with your request.

As for why: because, as a teacher, you have a duty to use your best endeavours to meet children's SEN, and you can't do that unless you know precisely what those SEN are. Because you can't do that unless you know what is in part 3 of his statement or part F of his EHCP so that you can ensure that it is being delivered. And if it can't be delivered by you due to lack of funding or whatever then, as a conscientious teacher, you have a professional duty to draw that to the attention of your superiors including the SENCO and Head, and also the parents so that they can take steps to enforce their child's entitlement. And maybe because, as a teacher, you might take some professional interest in doing your best by your pupils.

Charis each term the LA sends lists to schools of children due annual reviews. It's not unheard of for kids with statements to be omitted from those lists (my LA have been in a right pickle on this front, this year) but they're not going to timetable a review for a child who doesn't have a statement, so how on earth are kids without statements being reviewed?

And wouldn't the response of the LA be one of total bewilderment when they received a review pack for a child with no statement?

Honestly, somoene would notice, somewhere, unless all 20 schools you seem to be at the centre of through your supply work and the 3 LAs are all equally incompetent or fictional.

why are they not liasing with the LA which LA? where ? I don't really think people have much of an understanding of what a school community can actually be like.

The LA where the child lives. Each school has each child's address. It is the work of a moment to work out which LA they live in. Even in London, most maintained mainstream schools tend to be dealing with the same LAs anyway, even if they are taking children from a number of areas.

OurBlanche but this is why the law changed, so schools have more autonomy and flexibility. Now the only children who will need an ECHP are those with severe needs which cost more than £6k + the AWPU so approx 10k in total annually. The rest the school can make decisions regarding 'in house'.

since you are only a supply teacher, decades of teaching, specialising in SEN, I left teaching over a year ago because of the sheer volume of useless pointless meaningless paperwork which was taking up 80+ hours a week.....

Since then I have set up a free lance consultancy, and am regularly employed by several London boroughs, an I work in supply when there is not much consultancy work, partly to keep my hand in. - not always as a teacher.

I know what a review is, and NOOOOOOOO absolutly not is it as you describe, although maybe there is the occasional echo of this procedure still happening to some extent.

A statement generally means you have a pushy parent and have happened to land somewhere that still issues them

Nowhere in the country issues statements still. The very fact that Charis1 believes that some do demonstrates the depths of her ignorance of the law on SEN.

However, I can guarantee that every borough in London, where Charis1 claims to work, does issue EHC Plans, which is the current equivalent.

Each school has each child's address - no!

It is the work of a moment to work out which LA they live in -no!

tend to be dealing with the same LAs anyway - and again no!

as I said, some people just have very sheltered lives... you really don't understand, do you!

Wow, Charis, you advise on SEN and you still believe that some councils are issuing new statements.

Words fail me.

Which boroughs, Charis?

Well it happens where Inimitablejeeves works, and where I work, and where mrz works and where purplehairandpearls works and where...........

just not where you work

OurBlanche you seem to imply that a teacher knows better than the professionals who assessed and made recommendations for a child's statement and then you seem to think that you can judge whether or not a statement written by an educational law solicitor is watertight. I can assure you dd's statement is watertight as proved when a teacher with similar professional vanity decided that she knew better. It lasted as long as it took me to write to the LA warning them that the term's of dd's statement weren't being met and I would be looking for legal redress. Her statement was met to the letter pdq regardless as to what the teacher thought once the LA were made aware.

Charis no you have lead a sheltered life if you believe your experience trumps everyone else's. London, after all, is not the whole of the country.

capsium - there are also some potentially divisive funding changes, the personal budget for example.

An 20 weeks is a long lead time from assessment to plan.

Not sure it is going to be at all simple. I hope it will be.

Spaniel, I'm a pushy parent, unlike some on this thread I don't claim the status of a "professional". It's a subject close to my heart at the moment with all the transitions to EHCP and my DCs' needs changing - tough times!

Charis1, each school has been given the child's address on entry: the child wouldn't have been given a place otherwise. In a few cases, that address may be false or out of date, but for the purposes of assigning statutory responsibility for the child, that will be the operative address.

And it is certainly the work of a moment to find out what borough a particular address falls in. There are computer programmes that will do it for you.

I am not in the least sheltered, as it happens I have a lot of experience of dealing with SEN in different London boroughs. So please don't try to deny the facts.

not going to timetable a review for a child who doesn't have a statement, so how on earth are kids without statements being reviewed? why wouldn't any child who needs it get an annual review? What makes you think the LA has up to date lists?

One councillor once told me that there was a mismatch of over a thousand children in their LA, that is in that particular instant, over a thousand more children were listed as attending local schools, than actually were registered... of course, the mismatch happens the other way around too. The councillor I had that particular conversation with said the council was making plans to build a new school, but shelved the plans when they couldn't establish how many children actually existed.