Question for teachers. If a child has a statement, would you ignore it if you belived it wasn't justified?

[2boysnamedR]

That, in nutshell.

Son has a statement via winning a appeal. Head of village school said I won it as parents have money and the LA doesn't ( not true or fair I feel. In my case I won with no solicitor against the la rep with law degree ( ex legal firm worker).

My sons in a different school so I doubt my head would say this to my face. But. I'm pretty sure they don't agree with the dessision. They do some things really well, other things not so good but overall I get the impression there's bad will that I didn't listen to the school and did this.

If a child had a statement for ASD would / do some teachers think "he's just naughty, he needs a firm hand"

I am not going to judge or bash any ideas. Surely some people must think like this? I don't want to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

No dear. And I explained what I did and why.

I also read what Charis actually typed and the point she was trying to make. And those 2 links support what she said.

As for 'blindly following Charis's web' well, again, you haven't been reading too closely if you think that is what I a doing.

There may well be a lot of BS in her posting, but there is also a lot that rings true. Am I not allowed to acknowledge that? Is my experience not valid because it is unpalatable or slightly unexpected? Is evidence that she has a point to be ignored because it is a bit off topic?

Mmm! That is food for thought, unpleasantly so!

Head teachers who disagree with the statement have the opportunity to challenge the information during the process (as do parents)

Ah yes! A retreat to the letter of the law rather than an attempt at understanding why it is sometimes impossible to keep to it.

Again, that involves a teacher judging the content of a statement, something I have been told we cannot be so arrogant as to think we can do, upthread. It also involves teachers working in an atmosphere where saying as much is not deemed to be incompetence on their part.

These days a pleasant and open working climate cannot be taken for granted. Even the Secret Teacher has resigned over similar strictures.

That's bollocks. It is very simple to keep to

Head teachers do have the opportunity to challenge the contents of the statement. DS' head will quite happily tell be what she believes is possible and what she doesn't. Her reviews were reflected in the contents of the statement before DS even made it into her school! We have also jointly agreed changes as put of the standard form completed during the statement review process. DS' teacher and one-to-one had a say in this process too.

Everyone involved in the process has a professional opinion (regardless of whether parent agrees with it or not).

It is not the retreating the the letter of the law. It is just good practise. And it does exist in real life

I didn't say it doesn't exist. I did say that it is hard to do in some instances.

I did include a number of qualifying words that make it clear I was not talking in absolutes: sometimes; cannot be taken for granted

I am trying to counter those who are typing in absolutes... not too hard to understand, I hope!

Yes, but, Blanche, if a statement is not followed because it needs to be changed this really must be recorded and reported and agreement with the parents gained. Because, if not, actual need is distorted, when the statement bears no relation to a child's actual needs - if the child has to move, what then? If progression of need is not reported, how can the effectiveness of interventions be properly evaluated?

As a parent I want my child to progress in their level of additional need. I want my child to grow in levels of independence and self management. I want interventions to be shown to be successful, I have no problem with teachers, teaching effectively. This matters more than a statement which can be changed.

However, when funds are attached to statements, professionals can become less transparent, regarding success, when it suggests need has lessened, which means funding (which can be spent elsewhere) is lost. Or needs are not met but the funding has been spent elsewhere. That is what the thread I linked to earlier showed was happening.

So yes, statements do have to be adhered to or changed, through official routes, otherwise the actual needs are distorted.

There simply is no grounds to ignore the contents of a statement other than bad practise.

If you don't have the statement get it.

If you don't like the contents of a statement challenge it though the standard channels.

Simply ignoring it is just horrendously bad practise.

I know, and I do. Every year.

And I have said throughout this thread that this is how it should be. I should be able to question the contents of every statement I read.

I have been called arrogant for saying that!

Now I am being called there things for saying that, whilst I do, whenever appropriate, it is not always possible, due to the working climate some teachers find themselves in.

I have had parents challenge me aggressively, had HoDs tell me not to rock the boat, SENCOs refuse to process my opinions. I was lucky in my last job, the teams worked well together, Support/SENCO was a tight and responsive team that worked hard to ensure that students got the best experience. Not easy at 16 years as they often want to leave SEN behind them and just be 'normal', so they opt out by dint of non attendance at support meetings. Then parents get involved and it becomes our fault, without question.

I suppose though that I am now coming across as another of those whining teachers who wants to work 9 - 3.30 and have 96 weeks holiday every year

Hmmm, well I don't live in London thank god. Things aren't like that here. Honestly. I talk with the LA. I talk to the LA boss, the LA is god here. They pull all the strings and they ( dispite being rather crap) are in charge. Maybe it is a shit hot school after all..

Anyway I think I get your point Ourblanche. For me my ds sen needs weren't exclusively identified or set out by me. It was done by people with PhDs and qualifications to do so. If others were in disagreement with the best methods of help I'd listen.

With the statement we all sat down one evening and wrote a pathway plan for each need. It was open and worked well. I don't have problems with that. It's more the " that's all complete shat, he looks ok to me, I know better" I have problems with.

Maybe that's not what's going on in my case, time will tell over the next term I guess

It's more the " that's all complete shat, he looks ok to me, I know better" I have problems with.

As you should, it is inexcusable for any teacher to dismiss a statement. It is the mechanism by which we question one that is sometimes the problem.

As I said, keep in with the HT and let Miss/Mr Iggerant bury themselves.

Having said that, I hope you don't have to and all goes smoothly from here on in.

Blanche well, parents will, quite rightly, question because you are just one educational professional and by 16yrs they will have seen many, some of who will have contributed towards the statement. They themselves have years of experience of their child. You can't necessarily just wade in within the first term and expect to change what they have been told about their child over many years. The whole process can be extremely stressful for a parent too - they really do have to consider their child's long term welfare.

Again, capsium, I am not disagreeing.

Well, actually, maybe I am a bit, as at 16 it is only in the first term you can get to them. If you leave it and don't ask them their opinion you become part of the Oppressive Adult Conspiracy To Suck The Joy Out Of Every Teenager's Life - known as Do You Know My Mum? for short

well there is that, but you get my point. As I have said I like to hear about progression, although it can be somewhat of a white knuckle ride at times IYSWIM but hey, I've nerves of steel!

I work in secondary, so my input may well not be relevant, but here's my opinion just in case.

To answer the original question - I'd never ignore a statement, or any other information about a student. I read each and every piece of sen info for the children I teach. It's hard work initially to learn all their individual needs (in addition to learning the pupil premium, fsm, a&t, difficult family circumstances etc) but usually by October half term i have the key points in my head while I'm planning lessons. If the steps outlined aren't working I talk to the senco.

But (and it is a big but) I work in a school with very few pupils with sen. This year I teach just 7 students with statements or equivalent, and because there's so few the senco knows them all very well. Also, she's really, really good at her job and is a very valuable resource.

Finally, if I had a child with sen I'd absolutely be a pushy parent. It's not the parents problem if the school are under funded or that a significant proportion of teachers are overworked and stressed. I wouldn't blame the individual teachers though - the blame lies squarely with those who have been mismanaging the education system.

OurBlanche that particular teacher decided that dd did not need to complete the sensory circuits at the start of the day 5 times per week with the 1 to 1 support of her assigned and OT trained TA. She didn't see the need most likely because she would rather have had dd and her TA doing something else. But it was written in her statement (specified and quantified with no woolly terms) and she had no authority to alter that without so much as a discussion with myself or the OT.
I have no objection to a teacher raising areas where they feel the statement is no longer relevant but do it properly by raising it in the right way with discussion with the parents and the relevant professionals and have the statement amended so that it continues to be relevant and to meet needs.
As I have said only a tiny minority of the teachers I have met (and the one above was one of the worst and that particular incident was the tip of the iceberg tbh) feel that they can choose whether or not to meet the terms of the statement but when they do and have done they can cause considerable distress for the child and their parents.

"Parents told inspectors that under the current system they needed to "fight for the rights" of their children.

Often they saw an SEN statement as a guarantee of additional support for their child. But inspectors found that the identification of a special need or disability did not reliably lead to appropriate support for the child concerned. The review team found that children with similar needs were not being treated similarly and appropriately, and parents' perception of inconsistency was well-founded."

www.theguardian.com/education/2010/sep/14/half-special-needs-children-misdiagnosed

colley This is why the new legalisation has been designed, so schools have to show they have actually spent £6k (in addition to the AWPU) on an individual child's additional needs before more funds are applied for.

Whilst it is certainly the case that parents of children with SEN regularly have to push to get the support their children need, it is not inevitably the case that only children with pushy parents get statements or EHCPs. Schools regularly apply for EHC Needs assessments (the first stage in the process) off their own bat without parents asking for them. It happens at the school where I'm a governor, and a friend of mine was recently telling me how the school where she teaches was doing this for a child in her class whose parents had no interest even in making sure their child was in school, let alone that her SEN were met.

Charis, you're whole argument is completely bizarre. The annual review process is exactly as described upthread. DD1 always has her review in January. Her school has 130 statemented children (SS) - you can't get a place without one (bar in exceptional circumstances as an assessment place) because you must have complex needs to go there.

The school holds around 4 annual reviews each week. Notification letters are sent out. Parental views are requested. Professionals are notified and the statement is gone through line by line.

The school has a massive floor to ceiling cabinet with a folder for each child, clearly marked, containing all relevant information. Each year we are sent a pack of papers in September with all medical details, home address, emergency contact details, medications, etc., which we must check for accuracy/update and return to the school.

Our school is managing despite having to process 130 annual reviews and around 20 transitions from statement to EHCP each year. There really is no excuse to not have a handle on 5-20 statements in a mainstream school, tbh.

I'm not arguing anything Lougle, I'm simply describing reality.

But you aren't describing reality, Charis. You tell us you aren't even in full time teaching, and your reality doesn't accord with the law or what actually happens. I fully accept that there are some schools and LAs whose practice is bad, but not in the wholesale and long term manner alleged by you. And, if your job is to advise LAs, surely you have no choice but to advise them to obey the law.

So, have we come to an agreement?

1. Teachers MUST not ignore statements, these are legal documents setting out provision
2. The LA is still responsible for statements/EHCPs
3. There can be no reason NOT to have access to a statement, every professional agency involved in the compilation of one has a copy
4. Parents cant simply turn up and claim their child has a statement and there be no way to check
5. There are times when a statement needs changing ( after all, the whole point of a statement is to put in place provision to enable the child to make progress) but it shouldn't simply be a unilateral decision by anyone. There are systems and procedures in place to enable all those involved to put forward their views.
6. Not everyone gets it right all the time, but the majority of those involved try their best
7. There can be problems in some areas accessing the level of TA support required BEFORE a statement is agreed but there shouldn't be after. 8)Charis has no idea what she is talking about!

I am describing what is real. You might not like it, but this is what is real.

Charis have you actually been in a school since you were a pupil as your posts sound total fantasy! No LEA could get away without meeting their statutory duty let alone three ...
Individual schools need to produce evidence to prove they are following procedure and parents would be up in arms if what you describe had a speck of truth.

in cloud cuckoo land spanial eyes

If it is real I am shocked and appalled by anyone's acceptance of it.

Or justification.

It is simply bad practice and should be challenged by any caring individual parent or teacher