Question for teachers. If a child has a statement, would you ignore it if you belived it wasn't justified?

[2boysnamedR]

That, in nutshell.

Son has a statement via winning a appeal. Head of village school said I won it as parents have money and the LA doesn't ( not true or fair I feel. In my case I won with no solicitor against the la rep with law degree ( ex legal firm worker).

My sons in a different school so I doubt my head would say this to my face. But. I'm pretty sure they don't agree with the dessision. They do some things really well, other things not so good but overall I get the impression there's bad will that I didn't listen to the school and did this.

If a child had a statement for ASD would / do some teachers think "he's just naughty, he needs a firm hand"

I am not going to judge or bash any ideas. Surely some people must think like this? I don't want to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

It does in the schools I know and as a SENCO i certainly wouldn't be breaking the law by ignoring my statutory duty.
Parents of children with a statement of SEN are usually well informed certainly more than a school who uses the term incorrectly.

I'd agree with mrz the parents of statemented children I know are very well informed usually through necessity tbh and often because it has taken a lot of time effort and money to secure the statement. If parents are so ignorant in charis's school then it's probably because the ones who know anything about statements avoid such a shit set up like the plague.

Charis, if you choose to break the law then you make that choice, but it doesn't change the law.

DD1 will transition this year because she's in year 5 and they have to get ready to name her secondary provision.

I doubt if 15 hours provision is £15,000 - full time TAs earn £13-14k plus on-costs.

The bottom line is that if provision is specified and quantified it must be followed, but if it says 'has access to' 'support of' 'either 1:1 or in small groups', etc., it is more leaky than a sieve.

Thanks for advise, IPSEA are helping me right now.

Yes I do know a fair bit about the law, as said here, I have little choice. Unfortunately it's my top priority so I know more than the school who have never had reason to question the LA as I have. I have brought the head up when the school broke the law so as you can imagine I am not liked. But I saw no choice. The school granted access to outsider to my son without even informing me. I can't say I'm sorry because in not. Any child deserves more than that. Any parents deserve who's sitting alone in a room with their child who's not on school staff roll.

Like I say, trying to do right by my child doesn't make you popular. Brushing off problems won't make me popular as then I'm neglectful. So the only option left is to be politely resigned to my child not reaching potentail

Ds's provision in an ASD unit was £14,000 pa (£10,000 for transport on top) so 15 hours in mainstream would be much less. I only know the cost because we secured independent specialist school at £50,000pa (£5,000 on transport)

No he's not statemented for 15 hours. That is what his interventions add up to. That was the coatings of the sum of interventions at the hearing. He in facts gets no funding. The school puck up the tab ( why they don't push back on the LA I have idea!)

Sorry I am dyslexic so some reading between the lines might be needed! Itskes sense to me

Our LA are one of the few LA's who fund statements separately and outside of the general SEN funding which I think possibly gives parents a better position. Firstly schools don't see a statemented child as a drain on resources because funding is attached to them and secondly parents can quite rightly demand that the funding is used to benefit their child or move their child and funding elsewhere. I moved dd with no notice thanks to a maverick HT and so the school she left ended up paying her TA's notice period out of their own funds (somewhat satisfying to me anyway)

Charis is always against Sen nd home ed yet the more I read their posts the worse the school they work at sounds.
Ime schools ignore needs, go to tribunal for assessment, statement/EHC ends up getting issued then school either promise and lie and ignore or try toanage the child out of the school.

I would not ignore it because it is a legal document.
I would not decide unilaterally that it was unjustified because I annoy qualified to make that judgement.

That's not to say that I disagree with the idea that the most pushy, articulate parents get the statement their child needs. But rather, that unfortunately, less well versed parents who know little of the system often miss out on the entitlement their child needs and deserved. We've all looked at certain children and known they should be statemented but that's not the same as saying the ones who do have a statement are just 'naughty with pushy parents'.

I am not qualified.

In my case the school say lots of soothing things then amaze me with something totally bonkers.

Ds was shouted at ( but I was told he wasn't - he was told off, son lied to me) first day of term for getting something wrong. He is 7. I can't get my head round the logic. He's no genius, surely getting things wrong is with expectations for a learning "challenged" child.

I was told today expectations are high from the start so the kids are aware of the bar level from the off. Again, I'm struggling as he's no genius.

So the head makes the right noises and tells me he's wanted there, they can meet his ( very minor as they see it) needs. CT says she's got lots of experience with kids like ds - but being punished for being wrong?

So that's the dilemma. Why feed me hot air, do crazy stuff like this, be "very upset" that I question it and still want ds there?

What am I missing? It's bizarre

I'm told the staff take it very personally yet I'm the one crying driving home. I am also being told to keep talking to them, but at the same time I'm hurting feelings.

I doubt my sons feelings really comes into this.

Are they just saying whatever as they want his funding? I don't get that either as he clearly costs the school money and we cost being "that pita family"

I have been frank and said all this twice to head and duputy who said I was wrong, it's all fine. Dc comes first. But of course they can say " your a nightmare - get your kid out of the school"

However I was told that he is drain on the school. That was retracted and apologised but I think that was a moment of frustrated honesty.

Writing that out, I think I have my answer really

Btw he's in year three but been there since year R. Older boys was there year R to year 6 so we have been at the school for years

Nomore I would also agree that sometimes it's more dependent on the ability of the parents to secure a statement than an individual child's needs too. I would readily admit that in dd's year there are a great many children with more significant needs who don't have a statement. That's not to say that dd doesn't need hers more that those without are not getting the support they need.
Not all schools are as aware of the statementing/EHCP process as they need to be and so aren't able to secure support needed nor advise or support parents to secure one themselves.
I'm quite assertive and well able to research ways and means of getting what dd needs and so dd gets what she needs. Admittedly it doesn't make me popular with any person in school who thinks they can attempt to short change my dd but I don't want friends I want people competent and able to provide what I have fought for and secured to enable dd to reach her full potential.

2boys stop talking to them, start communicating by email, they will slip up sooner or later and you will have it documented and then you use that to turn the screws. The Equality Act and Freedom of Information Act are your greatest allies so embrace them and quote them regularly.
The SENCo's "you can have whatever you want" is purely because she screwed up and it's documented nicely where she screwed up both in writing and in email. It's easier for her to dance to my tune at the behest of the HT than it would be the school dancing to OFSTED

Yes it's all recorded in emails.

Head emailed me saying he had over and beyound with my kids and the school had spent more than their fair share on my boys ( I was livid as the month before I was sitting in tribunal where the sence was saying they could meet needs within funding).

I emailed my concerns last night, that when the replied that there is a high standard expected of all the children ( insert high academic standards here as he was told off for getting his work wrong, not for behaviour).

It's all in emails.

Sorry the head replied I mean.

Then email the headteacher and remind him of the school's duty to make reasonable adjustments on account of your child's disability.
Tell him funding is not your concern and if it is a concern to him then he has the option of demanding that the LA funds what he cannot afford.
Tell him above and beyond tells you nothing ask him to quantify and specify exactly what provision the school has made to meet the needs of your son and to document and provide you with these details weekly so that you have the evidence you need to either secure more support for your child in that school or to secure a provision elsewhere.
He's going to have to reply and you use his replies to help your case.

It's likely he's will be a witness for the LA as he has no senco.

I have told him before funding isn't my problem, but if it is for him he needs to get the LA to pay up. He then retracked what he said. I think the school fear the LA but I don't.

A lot of parents don't know or care, or understand, which maybe sounds odd to the parents who come on here. A lot of parents actually say their child is statemented, without having any idea what it means, and we just carry on using the word, without having an actual statement. It isn't in fact unusual for a child to be with us many ears before we find, normally on transfer, that they are not in fact genuinely statemented.

Charis Do you not have a SENCO where you work? I'm baffled that the school doesn't have a copy of each child's alleged statement. What type of school do you work in, it sounds bizarre? I've worked in schools for years (and I have a child with a statement.) I've never known parents refer to a statement and teachers/schools to just go along with it until transfer!

Another here who is very concerned about what Charis is posting - that certainly is not true or typical of any school I've had anything to do with (and sadly, I know there are schools that are very poor with all things SEN/D, as I also know there are schools that are great - and, like most things in life, a lot that are just muddling along trying to do their best with very little support).

I have said this so many times on these boards! What ever you think the law is, its irrelevant if it is unfulfillable and unenforceable.

I the law said you HAVE to give me a million pounds, and you don't have it, I'm not going to get it, am I?

if I went to court, and the court INSISTED you hand over a million pounds, and you don't have it, I'm still not going to get it, am I?

its like I said, we do our best, for the children statemented, and the children not statemented.

And it is far far more then a few children not getting a statement because their mums are not pushy enough. We have plenty of Mums actively against having children classed as SEN. I had a boy with me today for example, who's younger brother is taken to all assessments, instead of him, and the doctor is told it is the older boy!

We also have children whos Mum's don't give a stuff, children who's Mums have SEN themselves, children who's Mums don't speak English, children who don't have Mums.

Children with an actual statement are less than 50% of the children who have that level of SEN.

I'm not saying it means nothing, but it doesn't carry the weight people on here keep trying to insist it does, never mind that many authorities never issue them at all any more, and in some places they are not recognised.

Still, I've said all this many times before, as have others, and yet someone will come along in a moment and try and insist I HAVE to act on a statement. I'd probably never even SEE it.

Charis, the original question was, if a child has a statement, would you ignore it, not whether you would be able to fulfil it. I totally see the point about many non-statemented children having greater needs than statemented children and I'm sure no teacher would disagree with you there. I can also see that if you have one family who have substituted a child for assessment, you might have a cluster who have done the same thing.

The question is, what is your school's attitude to all this? How is it meeting a child's needs not to make some sort of report (social services? GP?) saying that you have reason to believe that the younger child has been assessed by a health team when there was no need? That child has undergone a procedure there was no need for (and effectively been assaulted, but that's probably an extreme way of putting it). Who do you raise your concerns with?

Then what possible benefit to anyone is there in using 'statemented' so loosely? Does your school generally encourage this vagueness in language? Whether or not you think anything of the statementing process, why call children statemented when either they are not, or you say you have no idea whether they are or not? Why not just refuse to use that name unless you have actually seen a copy of the statement? Wouldn't that be more accurate?

Charis, I'm a foster care and a mum of 2 children with SEN and statements (no EHC plan till 2017). I am also married to a SENCO. This has given me experience of over 20 schools and 19 children with statements ( and I know of a lot more). I've never come across views and practices like yours in any school ( thank goodness).
I have occasionally worked with families struggling with their child's SEN, and those who don't prioritise it but it's unusual. And I'm not sure what home language has to do with anything?

In reply to the OP, my daughter is autistic but was initially placed in a language unit with selective mutism. Her teacher didn't accept she was autistic and we moved her. This was 10 years ago, and the differences in autism in girls and boys were not as known as they are today. However, the statement is enforceable, so tightening the statement is really important. Don't expect things to be easy though - I find, statement aside, it's a bit of a roller coaster, and sometimes things crash and need redoing.
Ps I sometimes wish I could show my daughter to that non believing teacher now! I'd love to sit her in a room while dd lists Monarchs' birth dates and bus routes for hours......

Charis1

Sorry but you are speaking utter rubbish and I hope to god that no one reading here actually takes any of what your'e saying seriously.

A statement of SEN is a legally binding document and will be until the child is re assesses for an EHCP. If like you say a statement of SEN is not legally binding then how does my child with a statement of SEN (not an EHCP) have a place in an ASD specific unit, with full 1 to 1 TA support?? where is the funding coming from for her provision coming from? if like you say a statement of SEN is not legally binding.

If your school is not providing the provision legally given to a specific child in your school, then they ARE breaking the law, this is all fact. As already suggested further up the thread, you have some serious reading to do!

Also don't you think it is VERY unprofessional of you to have a child/ren in your class and not read their statement of SEN? (If your school is not forthcoming with providing you with a copy, ask the parent!!) How can you fully understand the full nature of the child's specific needs, without doing so?