Question for teachers. If a child has a statement, would you ignore it if you belived it wasn't justified?

[2boysnamedR]

That, in nutshell.

Son has a statement via winning a appeal. Head of village school said I won it as parents have money and the LA doesn't ( not true or fair I feel. In my case I won with no solicitor against the la rep with law degree ( ex legal firm worker).

My sons in a different school so I doubt my head would say this to my face. But. I'm pretty sure they don't agree with the dessision. They do some things really well, other things not so good but overall I get the impression there's bad will that I didn't listen to the school and did this.

If a child had a statement for ASD would / do some teachers think "he's just naughty, he needs a firm hand"

I am not going to judge or bash any ideas. Surely some people must think like this? I don't want to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

I know that. What I am saying is that in their current guise the rules are impossible to follow to the letter.

I am not saying I don't do my best, and so have no reason to be ashamed. But you cannot say, hand on heart that you meet every need in every statement, precisely, every moment of every lesson for every single child. You an only say that you built and delivered the lesson with every child in mind. You know you don't deliver every word in every statement to every child in every lesson. I now you don't too. Because no one can (unless they have very small classes).

It is the absolutism of that statement that I have serious issues with, given the current climate, financial constraints and ever changing goalposts - admittedly 'guidelines' was the wrong word to use!

My spelling is slipping again, apologies. I am also sewing

And that is the potential flaw Charis. You might have encountered thousands of children fleetingly but you have not met mine (and I hope will never meet them). All children with statements are different and that is why they have a personalised statement and not a generic textbook on autism or physical difficulties or dyslexia or whatever difficulty they have that they have been awarded that statement for. And that is why as a teacher you should read it - it will help you teach my child and manage his behaviour as much as it will help my child learn and behave. I have twins - both have AS and high anxiety but get anxious about very different things - what a teacher needs to know about one is very different than what they need to know about the other.

Sorry, I've come to this late, but Charis - what on earth do you mean by A lot of parents actually say their child is statemented, without having any idea what it means, and we just carry on using the word, without having an actual statement. It isn't in fact unusual for a child to be with us many ears before we find, normally on transfer, that they are not in fact genuinely statemented.

How could you possibly believe that a child is statemented only to find many years later that he isn't? If the child had a statement a copy would have been sent to the school, and the LA would write to the school every year about carrying out annual reviews. The school would be grossly negligent if it did not ensure that it had a copy of the statement and kept it under review, including make recommendations for amendments as the child matures. If a school was routinely carrying on dealing with children whom it believes to have statements with no clue as to what those statements say, it would be at serious risk of failing Ofsted inspections.

May I, Jeeves? In FE we get this more often than you might expect.

A student goes through school and they have had a lot of extra support, maybe for behavioural issues or maybe thy are on the C/D grade border. The school discusses extra support with the parents.

When they move up to us those parents might refer to that as being statemented. When we check there is no Statement though there may be a statement of issues in a report. This can cause confusion (and arguments and stress).

Sorry, but that is hogwash! If a parent told me their child had a statement then the first thing I would do is read it. Charis said "It isn't in fact unusual for a child to be with us many ears before we find, normally on transfer, that they are not in fact genuinely statemented."
How on earth can a child be with you for MANY YEARS without you noticing that they don't actually have the statement mentioned! What about the annual reviews, the mid year statement reviews, the 6 IEPS written each year based on the statement. How on earth can anyone not notice the lack of statement!

Are you saying that in your LA there are no longer any special schools?

no, I'm saying statements no longer play any sort of role in enrolment criteria

It is indeed probably the case that there is no special school where the sole criterion for entry is that the child has a statement or EHCP. Nevertheless, the fact remains that the vast, vast majority of children in special schools do have statements or EHCPs, simply because the costs of such placements are such that it is essential to have the placements funded by LAs, and LAs will not fund them unless they are required to do so by law, i.e because the school is named in a statement/EHCP. So essentially Charis1 is splitting hairs here.

To be utterly fair, so are other posters.

Surely a child with very very severe disabilities does not have to be statemented to go to a special school?

Oh Charis has spouted contradictory, inflammatory, ignorant bollocks on a lot of threads I have seen.

I am devoutly grateful that the people involved in meeting my DCs needs aren't quite so stupid and self righteous.

If you are so convinced you are correct in what you are saying, Charis, why don't you name the borough/s you "work" in, if indeed you are actually employed in all the differing capacities you claim you are? I would be very interested to know which areas to avoid, where they employ people who don't even know the very very basics eg statements are still in place (we haven't yet switched to EHCPs either) and legally binding on the LEA to fulfill.

How on earth can a child be with you for MANY YEARS without you noticing that they don't actually have the statement mentioned! What about the annual reviews, the mid year statement reviews, the 6 IEPS written each year based on the statement. How on earth can anyone not notice the lack of statement!

because the lack of that specific piece of paper is irrelevant to the meeting, reports, assessments, recommendations, targets, etc. that's why.

its not unusual for parents to lose statements, refuse statements, what ever - why would should that disadvantage the child?

I work in London, purplehair, I do freelance, and supply

Surely a child with very very severe disabilities does not have to be statemented to go to a special school?

exactly, having a statement can tell you more about the parent than the child.

I'm not surprised by Charis posts. I have too witnessed this at my son's previous previous school. There are teachers (who work in mainstream school) have actually admitted to me of the concerns Charis has pointed out.

That's why I'm so glad I pushed my son into a specialist setting.

I'm torn now as to whether it's better for OPs where Charis appears on their threads, to ignore, or challenge so people who aren't as experienced in the system, don't take it as fact.

If the child had a statement a copy would have been sent to the school

in theory, maybe, in an ideal world. In practice, it might happen, or it might not happen, it might matter, it might not matter, it might be relevant, it might not be relevant..........

Charis the parent is not the only holder of a copy of a statement. Every professional body involved gets a copy, school, ed psyche, SLT, paediatrician, occupational therapy...etc

It is very hard to review a statement if there isn't one to review!!
Have you ever been to an annual statement review because it doesn't sound like it! We go through EVERY word on the statement to ensure it is still relevant-we check every detail in it, the meeting is attended by the parents, any specialist services involved, outreach workers, parent advocates, the SENCO and the class teacher. Don't you think just ONE of them might notice the lack of an actual statement to review!!

Well London doesn't narrow it down does it? Which boroughs are you employed by, or work with? (I would be quite frankly amazed if you do name them)

OurBlanche, the situation in FE is rather different, though, isn't it, because until last September statements lapsed when children left school and went to FE, and they had Learning Difficulty Assessments instead. So it may be the case that some parents believe that their child has had support only for it to be discovered when the child moves to FE college and they see the records that that was incorrect.

However, Charis1 is saying that she works in a number of schools and that she apparently is regularly in a position where she accepts it, sometimes for many years, when parents tell her their child has a statement and doesn't bother to check. I simply cannot understand how any teacher in that position doesn't believe it necessary to look at the statement - an exercise which, contrary to what she says, absolutely does not take hours. And surely any teacher with half a brain would wonder why the alleged statemented child wasn't receiving annual reviews?

I'm a school governor with particular responsibility for SEN. I have termly meetings with the Inclusion Manager - and it's a largish 3 form entry primary school. She is required to keep complete data on all children with SEN, particularly those with statements, because she has to account for how their funding is being used and has to be in a position to demonstrate that the child is making progress. If s/he is not, she will consider recommending changes to the statement, including requests for further funding if necessary; in the final analysis if the child continues to fail to make progress she will discuss with the parents and LA whether s/he should be transferred to more specialist provision. If she doesn't do that, the head would be asking questions, so would I, and so would Ofsted.

there is so much rubbish being posted by Charis ... I can't believe anyone is taking it seriously ????

And if the school do not receive their copy, why are they not liasing with the LA and requesting one? Seems a pretty expensive waste, of all of the numerous other professional's time, and government funding, if you ask me...

doesn't bother to check - again, a departure from reality, I'd like to hear your suggestions about how I check, and WHY????

Don't you think just ONE of them might notice the lack of an actual statement to review!! its not unusual

And surely any teacher with half a brain would wonder why the alleged statemented child wasn't receiving annual reviews? we still run annual reviews, even if no one can lay hands on a statement, even if the child is known to have no statement, even if we simply don't know if the child is statemented or not.

because the lack of that specific piece of paper is irrelevant to the meeting, reports, assessments, recommendations, targets, etc. that's why.

Not if it's an annual review meeting. Any school which carries out an annual review meeting without specifically considering the terms of the statement is negligent.

its not unusual for parents to lose statements, refuse statements, what ever - why would should that disadvantage the child?

But the school should not lose the statement. And it is irrelevant whether they refuse them - the LA still has a duty in law to provide one if necessary, and to ensure that the provision set out in the statement is delivered.

If the statement requires that, say, a child with severe communication problems should have 1:1 speech and language therapy for one hour a week plus a specialist speech and language programme which is regularly monitored and adapted as the child develops, and the child doesn't get any of that because no-one bothers to look at the statement - do you think it is just possibly that that child might be disadvantaged?

why are they not liasing with the LA which LA? where ? I don't really think people have much of an understanding of what a school community can actually be like.