Question for teachers. If a child has a statement, would you ignore it if you belived it wasn't justified?

[2boysnamedR]

That, in nutshell.

Son has a statement via winning a appeal. Head of village school said I won it as parents have money and the LA doesn't ( not true or fair I feel. In my case I won with no solicitor against the la rep with law degree ( ex legal firm worker).

My sons in a different school so I doubt my head would say this to my face. But. I'm pretty sure they don't agree with the dessision. They do some things really well, other things not so good but overall I get the impression there's bad will that I didn't listen to the school and did this.

If a child had a statement for ASD would / do some teachers think "he's just naughty, he needs a firm hand"

I am not going to judge or bash any ideas. Surely some people must think like this? I don't want to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

Sadly much of what Charis has posted is also my experience. In the family we have teachers that span all years and none if us could put our hands on hearts and say we know what SEN each and every child in front of us has.

1. There is too much to read
2. Not all information is available to us
3. Some of those statements are just blather... I said some
4. SENCOs are often inundated and extremely stressed
5. Even if we did know all the details we don't have 36 hours in a day or 10 days in a week.

I teach in FE and have a routine:
August/September/October talk to SENCO equivalent. Take notes and watch.
Post Oct half term report back to SENCO and tell her what I observe and how students has responded.

This works as, at that age, a surprising number of students with a statement cannot abide to be strictured by them any more... they have grown up, gained their own coping mechanisms and the guidelines in many statements become too restrictive.

Other times a student will refuse to connect with any support as they are just sick to death of it/embarrassed/want to be more independent.

Oddly my DSis, who teaches Reception, says much the same about her classes. She tries but there is too much and quite often the statement bears no resemblance to the student in the classroom.

So I have to assume that sometimes those statements are of no help as they are often global in nature and not always as specific as would be needed in a classroom.

Don't be too sure that the teacher who seems to disregard your child's statement is dong so because they are ignorant. Sometimes it is because your child presents quite differently in class.

Discaimer I have also met my fair share of stupidity in colleagues who just don't understand and make all sorts of ridiculous, often insulting, decisions where a student has a statement.

Alfie I think this depends entirely on what a child's individual additional needs are. Special schools are not necessarily the best place to cater for every individual child with additional needs - they are geared up to deal with the types of needs their pupils have. There are all lot of types of additional need that can be successfully catered for within mainstream school.

Don't be too sure that the teacher who seems to disregard your child's statement is dong so because they are ignorant. Sometimes it is because your child presents quite differently in class.

This needs to be recorded though and parents informed, so the statement can be changed at annual review and an interim course of action agreed.

Charis you're just making stuff up. 'Statements don't play any role in enrolement criteria' ?? WTF? Of course they do. If a school
Is named on a statement they have to take the child.

God I'm relieved my son is in a special school where people know what they are doing.

OP - the biggest hurdle at mainstream - ime (we had 5 terms) - was that the staff really didn't have a clue how to support ds1. Even had they been willing (& they weren't really), they would have struggled. Ds1's needs are severe (shouldn't have been in m/s - wasn't my choice) so you may get better luck with more able kuds where the teachers may at least understand a bit about them.

Having said that I often have to bite my tongue when ds3 reports back on things from his school (& what has happened with the children with SN). The school is willing but the teachers don't really know what they don't know unfortunately.

capsium - have you ever had that conversation with parents? It can be bloody terrifying!

So that is what the post Oct half term report back to the SENCO is for!

Don't be too sure that the teacher who seems to disregard your child's statement is dong so because they are ignorant. Sometimes it is because your child presents quite differently in class.

Statements are written with input from ed psychs, SALTs, OTs and others far better qualified to assess the needs of a child than a teacher tbf. If a teacher believes that the statement isn't accurate or worth following then they should ask for a reassessment with a view to amending and not disregard the statement

It's such attitudes as this that makes parents despair tbh.

I am a parent with a child who has had a statement and, yes! I have observed that terrified look before!

Just remember though, at annual review, just how many staff and other professionals are at the meeting, with all their professional language, talking to sometimes just one parent..

I was glad I had the time to do lots of extra reading.

I am not a teacher, but I have worked with children who are not statemented, but have severe needs. Their needs have been greater than many of the children I meet who go to a mainstream school and are statemented.
So I would support schools offering the support children need, whether they are statemented or not.

I've seen that too capsium, it can be like drowning in treacle. You start off OK, but as you go on it becomes more and more dense and impenetrable until you realise you are trapped and cannot walk away. And then the scariest person in the room asks for your opinion

insanity I think you may have misunderstood my post. It really does not matter who writes the statement, they rarely do so from within the class the student will be sat in (although I have asked for and had that happen, once). As I said, they note more global problems, or ones that occur in a relatively 'false' setting. Many students react very differently in a classroom. Given that I said I work with the SENCO team why would you make a negative assumption re. my attitude? Or did you miss that I was in FE?

Ourblance - it was day one of teaching him so I doubt she could say from a few hours that he would respond well to being told off to stop getting work wrong as a good motivator for him. It's just her method for teaching so that what he gets in her class.

I think it was asked before but she confirmed to me as did tell him off forgetting work wrong. He should know better. He's in the bottom 3% of the child population for academia. I doubt even the smartest kid doesn't get things wrong sometimes. It's not a good start for day one. the head confirmed he was told off for getting his work wrong. Ds told me she shouted. She said she didn't hence ds lied. I was asked if I had a problem comprehending that. I was rather annoyed that the assumption is that I am rather thick.

I thought you were referring to your sister having the same attitde tbh. Ds and dd's statements weren't written off the cuff they were assessed by multiple professionals, their needs were discovered and then knowing their needs and the impact of them were then translated to the support they would need in the classroom.
I would not be happy to know that the statement I had secured before my child entered education that had been written following independent professional assessments and made watertight by an specialist education law solicitor was being disregarded unlawfully by a teacher who may only have done one afternoon's training on my child's disability tbh.

Sorry, 2boys. I wasn't really replying to your OP, more to the following posters getting wound up by Charis's posts.

In your circumstances I would stay in close rapport with the HT. That teacher has all the hallmarks of pillockdom. I know such teachers exist, DSis is shoving one though capability, but he thinks it is all a conspiracy, as he is perfect in each and every way

It is sad that the system tends to drown parents, SENCOs and teachers in paperwork, there must be a better, more joined up way of getting the relevant information to all that need it.

Good luck with that teacher. Hopefully you won't need it

Insanity - I can only repeat that sometimes, no matter how well those statements are written when a child enters a new situation they can react quite differently. Both mys DSis and I have had many children who react very negatively to the recommendations made by Ed Psychs etc. We do not dismiss them, but they really are not watertight.

Yes, some teacher's are poorly prepared for the wide range of SENs they will meet in any one classroom. But many more do their best and are willing to raise a flag and say that the statement does not fit the child at that time, in that place and they take time, put in the effort, to ensure that what does work is found and implemented. Regardless of what you think I am doing I am trying to ensure that a statement does not become a straightjacket.

And I am not, in any way unusual. Many colleagues, family and friends do much the same.

Maybe we are talking at cross purposes. That happens a lot too!

Charis1 Where is my personal attack you dont know anything at all about how the SEN system works, you have proved that by the tripe you have posted on this thread. This is not a personal attack this is simply stating facts. Shame your not spending your time better informing yourself really!

Thanks, hopefully the CT will figure him out sooner rather than later. He is NC adverage scoring ( god knows how, that doesn't add but - but that's another story!) if not I will have a new statement in three months. If all else fails I will have to go back to insisting they follow his pathway plan that they themselves wrote to meet his needs.

Not the "he's a bit lazy, I will disapline that out of him!"

I have said a hundred times, if I was that easy I would shout at him from sun up to sun down. But alas, not amound of that will rewire his brain

fine, so my decades of experience, thousands of children, surfeit of "training" and retaintion as consultant has left me not knowing what is going on.....

I put "training" in quotes, because the more you do, the more you find it is contradictory, there is no body of knowledge and expertise, as some people seem to think, there is just waves of ideas that come and go, some are silly, some seem to have some value, many are pointless fads. I was quite interested to see someone upthread referring to ed psychs as " qualified" as well!

yes, some are,

Under the code of practice it is the duty of every teacher to meet the needs of all their pupils with or without a diagnosis or statement (ECHP)

A completely and totally pointless meaningless statement Mrz

Yes I agree charis ... Everything you have posted is totally pointless and untrue

it is the duty of every teacher to meet the needs of all their pupils

Aye! Sadly we work in the real world and, with the best will in the world, it is often impossible to do that with the facilities we have! Then there is the 'doom and gloom' spread by interest groups. Repeated statements of teachers being intractable often mean parents are combative before they get to us. Also the belief that LAs will stint on funding if at all possible (see up thread for examples) is fed by the meeja. None of which helps all interested parties work in the best interests of the child.

Add to that the rapidly changing guidelines - the latest one with its coded "if your child fails blame the teaching, it wasn't of a high enough standard" yet doesn't say what success is, nor does it offer much more than another change to how TAs are utilised (less 1-2-1 etc).

Charis - I have seen so many posts of yours on so many threads which frankly leave me aghast that you have so much experience with children with additional needs, and are a consultant involved with so many schools, and the opinion that you seem to have of parents of these children is bewildering. I feel like your posts should come with a flashing light and a warning sign.

2boys - I hope you get a good resolution to all this

I teach in the real world and would be ashamed to admit that I hadn't done my utmost to meet the needs of every child or that I had failed to ensure that a statement is being follow.

They aren't guideline Ourblanche they are a statutory duty

They aren't guideline Ourblanche they are a statutory duty

you can repeat yourself another twenty thousand times if you want, Mrz, it changes nothing about reality. Sorry if you don't like it, but there is is.