Question for teachers. If a child has a statement, would you ignore it if you belived it wasn't justified?

[2boysnamedR]

That, in nutshell.

Son has a statement via winning a appeal. Head of village school said I won it as parents have money and the LA doesn't ( not true or fair I feel. In my case I won with no solicitor against the la rep with law degree ( ex legal firm worker).

My sons in a different school so I doubt my head would say this to my face. But. I'm pretty sure they don't agree with the dessision. They do some things really well, other things not so good but overall I get the impression there's bad will that I didn't listen to the school and did this.

If a child had a statement for ASD would / do some teachers think "he's just naughty, he needs a firm hand"

I am not going to judge or bash any ideas. Surely some people must think like this? I don't want to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

Funding rarely covers the actual costs of meeting a child's needs or the terms of a well written statement (EHCP) under the new code schools have to show they've used £6-9 K of school budget per child. To say that we are going to ignore a statement isn't acceptable and it is enforceable ... The school has to find the money.

Having said that OP from what you've written there doesn't appear to be anything specific in your child's statement for the school to fulfil.

I would also say that your son may genuinely believe that the teacher shouted at him for getting his work wrong and the teacher may genuinely believe they didn't shout at him (and the reason for the telling off may be something totally different). From experience I would listen to both sides of the story ... It's not a case of anyone lying just different perspectives of the same event (we all view the world differently).
My ASD son would often say someone had shouted at him (me, his sister, grandparents included) when he meant told off.

Op-regardless of legality I think ignoring is a bit subjective. I had a boy previously excluded at different school and had spent a year at a pru. He came with a statement. I was assigned a ta however alongside the parents we agreed that he wouldn't think of her as 'his' ta. We wanted to give him the best possible chance to integrate without stigma and didn't want other children to think he was any different from other new pupils. He did fantastically had a great year- we ensured support at playtime was around if required however reduced time so he was never reliant on them. He coped incredibly well however I think communication with all agencies and parents was key to the success. I didn't ignore his statement I planned carefully to ensure he succeeded however he was receiving support related to his needs not a piece of paper...

Funding rarely covers the actual costs of meeting a child's needs or the terms of a well written statement (EHCP) under the new code schools have to show they've used £6-9 K of school budget per child. To say that we are going to ignore a statement isn't acceptable and it is enforceable ... The school has to find the money.

Which, sadly, disproves the so called myth that children with additional needs do not "take finding" from other DCs.

Of course children with additional needs should get all the support they need but, to be fair to Charis, this does not always happen in practice. If the LA won't pay and the school can't, what's to be done?

Mythical when Statements come with individual funding attached, schools quite often spend that funding on children other than the funding was awarded to, in practice. As this thread shows:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1862438-Teachers-do-not-adhere-to-Statemented-1-to-1-support-do-not-believe-in-sub-levels-make-APP-assessments-up-How-much-of-what-parents-are-told-by-schools-about-teaching-is-a-box-ticking-exercise

What is needed is more integrity amongst the profession...and some LAs...

Which, sadly, disproves the so called myth that children with additional needs do not "take finding" from other DCs.

Mythicalkings

Im not sure if this varies in different LAs but for ours, primary schools are given approx 4.2K per student, for children on school support (old SA+) they are given an additional 6K, they can also then apply for top up banded funding if the additional 6K isnt enough to provide the additional support needed. In order to apply for banded funding schools need to provided evidence of how they're supporting the child, and the outcomes of this support. Of course the next step would be for the school or parents to apply for a statutory assessment for an EHCP.

So no children with additional needs in a good school the children with SEN should not take funding away from children with no additional needs. In many schools the opposite is often the "norm" as schools dont actually have to provide evidence of how they have spent their SEN budget.

No it doesn't mean that the school takes funding away from other children

I would never ignore a statement/ECHP/whatever you want to call it. I'm a teacher not an SEN expert so would trust that the experts know what they're doing.

Besides, if I couldn't show that I am thinking about every child in the class in an observation by the school or by OFSTED, if be on for a few stern words.

A statement of SEN is a legally binding document and will be until the child is re assesses for an EHCP. If like you say a statement of SEN is not legally binding then how does my child with a statement of SEN (not an EHCP) have a place in an ASD specific unit, with full 1 to 1 TA support?? where is the funding coming from for her provision coming from? if like you say a statement of SEN is not legally binding.

we have units, and whole schools that were for only for statemented children, but not now.

Also don't you think it is VERY unprofessional of you to have a child/ren in your class and not read their statement of SEN

I don't think you have a any true conception of the amount of paperwork that follow children round schools! You can't read it. reading it would take weeks, and you wouldn't remember it anyway.

last week I was in a 3 form entry school on the first day back.. The 20 or so children with the worst SEN were highlighted during the initial staff meeting. The staff meeting went on for 8 hours - with breaks, this is fairly typical, with all the information that staff needed for the new term.

Somewhere in that, the SENCO stood up and gave a breifing on these 20 children. Each childs picture was shown on a powerpoint, along with two or three bullet points on them. I thought this was excellent, as pictures are rarely shown like this, but in all honesty, who is going to remember? The power point is on the staff shared drive so people can look again, but this will be the full extent of the info available about those children.

Some have statements, some don't, some may have but the school doesn't have access to them, this is the reality.

Sorry but you are speaking utter rubbish and I hope to god that no one reading here actually takes any of what your'e saying seriously

Well, there you go, its entirely up to you, isn't it. I tell you what the reality is, you say it is rubbish, what more can I do???

The school has to find the money

see, this is the attitude of posters on here. You just don't seem to get it, if the money doesn't exist, the money doesn't exist. I can't make it exist, I would go to prison for counterfitting! And just as much so, the time doesn't exist. Teachers have the same numbers of hours in the day as anyone else. teacher time isn't an infinite resource that can be stretched more and more and more as further demands are made. Teachers break down, burn out, die, walk out, every day. hence the 40% shortfall in some areas. hence the complaints on here about supply teachers, and instability.

if you think you can do a better job, go ahead.

I should have made clear that my belief is that funding should come direct from the government to the school.

That would stop the LEA trying to wriggle out of their responsibilities or schools having to find funds because the LEA won't pay.

I am in the usa so it probably works differently here, but thought I would share my experience because it's going quite well and might be translatable to the UK. My ds (age 14) has an IEP for medical and mental health issues. It goes on for 40+ pages and amendments are issued every 3-6 months. It took me days to go through the whole thing. I can't imagine, and wouldn't expect, and don't think it would be helpful for any of his teachers to go through the whole thing. But part of his IEP assigns a resource teacher who is allotted a small amount of time a week just to my ds. Part of his job is to photocopy/highlight the relevant bits from the IEP at the beginning of each school year for his teachers. (e.g. things like the bit that says he can't run laps, isn't going to go to his english teacher) And if there are any issues, or misunderstandings, he will review the IEP with the teacher and ds. It helps that ds is an eager, enthusiastic and extremely capable learner, so although he may require extra time from the teacher, my experience is that they have all been happy to give it because the results are so rewarding.

In my classroom cupboard I have an SEN file which has copies of every IEP, every statement, every specialist report for any child in my class who has ever had any such intervention ( including those who no longer need/require it just in case the need should ever arise again). The same information is also held centrally by the SENCO ( with additional paperwork too) but if I need to access it I can do so. To say that schools and individual teachers do not have access to such paperwork is complete rubbish. They may not do in the school Charis works at but this is by far the norm.

Charis

we have units, and whole schools that were for only for statemented children, but not now.

So I take it you do not believe in inclusion?

It is not as simple as giving schools money. The thread I linked to above showed that even when individual funding has been attached to a statement schools have misappropriated those funds, not spent them on providing that individual statemented child's support, which distorts actual need.

Often whole schools or individual teachers are unwilling to make even reasonable adjustments, which cost absolutely nothing, for individual educational needs (read the SN boards).

Educational professionals' attitudes towards inclusion, IMHO from being a parent of a child who has had (up until the fairly recent past) a statement of SEN, really do matter.

My DC has done really well in mainstream, so well the statement, with its additional funding, is no longer required. This happened, though, with a lot of input from us as parents, mainly in challenging some educational professional's attitudes towards additional need. I worry for children whose parents cannot protect them in this way.

If it was you who I'd have come across, no doubt it would have been you whose attitude I challenged. Your views concerning inclusion are plain to see, my DC would have been treated as a nuisance even with the significant individual funding of the statement.

In the UK children who require additional input are often given an IEP which depending on need vary in length. The IEP details targets (SMART) and what the school will do to help the child achieve those targets. IEPs are reviewed a number of times a year ( we review every 10 weeks) ...
Statements are multi agency documents that are drawn up by a panel after reviewing all the evidence from parents, health, education, psychologists etc etc etc ...they are a legal document and often have additional funding attached.

SEN file

sorry, have to laugh at this - a SEN file ay???? we have a SEN office with about 30 filing cabinets jammed full to the point they cannot be opened, or anything removed or replaced... and further paperwork stacked up on the floor all over the place - yes we have access to it too - for what it is worth!

the school Charis works at

I'm referring to about 20-30 schools.

????????????????????????????????????

Well you are not referring to any school I know!
The percentage of children with SEN in mainstream schools is around 20%, which ( in an average class) means roughly 5-6 children per class. Last year I had 2 statemented children and 5 others. I managed to keep the paperwork under control!

mrz, thanks for that clarification. I think it's a little different here. All the evidence etc. is presented as part of the IEP development process. I guess that's because the medical system is not government run, so all the evidence would come from a variety of places.

We do have a less level of need/aid which is called a 504 Accommodation. My dd is having one of those put in place for her this year for her weird, identified, but unnamed learning difference (she can't add even the simplest numbers in her head, so needs a calculator/extra time for any subject that involves math). She's actually extremely good at maths otherwise, so doesn't need extra help from the teacher, just a calculator or time to count it out on her fingers (it's quite funny watching her do a long complicated algebra problem and then use the calculator to do 100/10 or 6*2).

*lesser

I thought you worked in FE Charis?

Fortunately your experience of 'reality' does not ring true for many teachers. I don't recognise any of the situations you describe at your workplace and have always opted to work in schools with deprived catchments.

Unfortunately I think your workplace is very unprofessional and this has coloured your view of what can and should be done.

Charis, I am genuinely appalled to hear about what goes on in your school. It is in stark contrast to those around here where legal obligations are taken seriously and there is a genuine will to ensure that children have the support they need to fulfilling their potential.

I do wonder what other legal obligations your governing board is happy to be ignored? Or is the governing board being misled?

I work in dozens of schools and sixthforms in 3 different boroughs.

I do work with three schools specifically, and with SEN mostly, particularly ASD

To be fair to Charis, the thread I highlighted contains some highly questionable practices, in terms of legality, from educational professionals and LAs. So I believe her/him, in this respect.

So there are dozens of governing boards comfortable with the law being ignored. Mind boggling, said as a governor with experience of monitoring sen.