Permanent Exclusion at Six years of age.

[HoundoftheBaskervilles]

I don't want to be writing this, I can't believe I've got here, but i need the help of the women on this board.

My daughter is six years old, I have her and a DS (who is the World's most, gentle and biddable child), DD is different, has been volatile from starting school (she was fine at pre-school).

From the age of four DD has been angry, (she's the youngest in the year, August born, and whilst I think this is contributory I don't think it's causal), she started school early and I think I may have made a mistake at putting her on the school bus as a young four year old, but, we live rurally and DH works away & I (despite repeated efforts, have yet to pass my driving test - it was expedient at the time) The first school she went to, she wigged out on the school bus, attacked other children, it wasn't great. I'm trying to precis here, but the school handled it badly, they kept putting her in isolation at the age of four and we had many meetings, I kept trying to tell them, many of her feelings are relating to rejection - she's always been insecure (for no reason - she's had a happy life - but she feels, and always has, rejection very seriously).

So we changed schools, we went to a school recommended by our peers, and it's been brilliant, so supportive, we accessed CAHMS, She had one to one support (which was ended at Easter on the behest of the LEA).

But last week, it all went wrong, she's been great at school for nine months, brilliant, not a problem, last thursday she started to go a little off the wall. Tried to abscond, it was handled ok, tried to abscond the next day, I was called in, when I got there, she'd been physically restrained for 30 mins, the two teachers who were involved in the restraint were looking resigned, but not upset. She was released and immediately went for the teacher that had restrained her, kicked her & pulled her hair, the teacher stormed off with the epitaph 'I've had it with this school',

I managed to calm her down and she wanted to apologise, we went to the office, but the teacher concerned was still crying, when she saw this DD grinned, it was a nervous grin, but it was still a grin, the secretary chased her out with a 'I don't think that's very nice DD', I just excited the area, I had to get away, I knew apologies were futile by this point.

She was excluded for three days, I had the letter yesterday, it hurt, but I understood, I went in today to what I thought was a reintegration interview, I was met by the Vicar who serves on the board of govs and was given a letter of permanent exclusion.

I've been blindsided, I'm so upset, I had 30 seconds to formulate an appropriate response. She's six, I feel she's been excluded from education forever.

SIX

Fuck - I'm so upset - I need some help here.

OP, it is your local authority which has responsibility to provide for your dd's education, so English law will apply.

I don't understand why the parent partnership person said she would arrange a managed transfer. They only happen when there's a danger that a child will be excluded, i.e. to avoid the exclusion happening. This could only become a managed transfer if the current school agrees to withdraw the permanent exclusion. It would be the council and the school between them arranging the transfer, not someone from parent partnership.

Has anyone contacted you about arranging interim education? Your dd is entitled by law to full time education from the sixth day after the exclusion. If it hasn't happened, phone the LA education department and ask them what they're going to do about it.

It sounds as if you really ought to look at getting the ball rolling by asking for an Education, Health and Care needs assessment with a view to getting an EHC plan. Look at the Ipsea and SOS SEN websites for more information about how to do that.

It's shocking isn't it, the first time someone in a position of authority lies to you.

At first I thought it couldn't possibly be true (in a different but comparable situation), why would people be lying? Surely it would be more than their job is worth to lie and be found out, but as time went on I realised that it wasn't a mistake or an accident, or through ignorance, lack of training etc. People actually do deliberately lie to stop you getting the help you need, that you're entitled to and the law says you should have access to.

It's horrible but sadly you get used to it.

Personally I've never understood why people go out of their way to lie when there's no direct benefit to themselves. The misplaced loyalty is surprisingly considering the ethical dilemma that it puts people in a lot of other employers would be extremely happy to inspire such loyalty in their staff! I guess maybe they are told that their jobs are on the line oh that budget cuts will have to happen which will affect them in some way that's the only way I can imagine this situation happening.

Anyway the point is yes she lied and it's good that you've got mumsnetters telling you this as it stops you wasting your time wondering what's going on, or even worse, accepting the situation at on face value. I think you need some advice off an expert but I'm not sure how to find the expert, would anyone on here know?

Then when you know your rights and have made a plan of what the best thing to happen for your child is you can put it into action. Lots and lots of luck I really feel sorry for you and your DD

Seconding the suggestion to contact IPSEA

Your LA would be responsible for transport - whether she attended school in Wales or England.

I was lied to by someone in the council. A freedom of information request put paid to that shenanigans

Right, I'll contact IPSEA first thing in the morning, I need to get myself a list of relevant questions to ask, (I emailed school already asking what the LEA's intention for provision is, so will have to see what they come back with, would it be worth my while to contact the LEA directly to ask this question?).

Is it worth my while taking the woman I spoke to today to the appeal if she's providing me with incorrect education, I did not expect her to advocate for me, I did however think it would be beneficial to have someone who can navigate their way through the bureaucracy, it seems that she may not be the person though??

Would IPSEA be able to point me in the direction of someone who will help me in that respect?

Sorry for all the questions, it seems it's the case that even knowing which questions to ask is crucial if I'm to get anywhere rather than to become mired.

You msy have to leave a message for IPSEA & wait for them to ring you back. They're very in demand. They should be able to help you with most things. Have s look at their website as well - lots of useful info & letter templates etc.

Gah, typos, I meant to say incorrect INFORMATION, not education.

My school once excluded a much loved pupil as we felt it was the only way he would be able to access the support he needed (special school). As long as we continued to meet his needs, nothing else would be sorted. However this was a while ago. If your dd doesn't have a statement, you can apply for one yourself (ehcp now). Ipsea website should help.I did this for my ds.

She can't go to a special school without an EHCP unless for observation and assessment.
Do you live in England and attend school in Wales? If so the LA should arrange education. Transport depends on being an eligible child - one of these is around attending the nearest suitable school so if she can't attend the one she's been excluded from they have to provide transport of the next one is over two miles away (she is in infants?)

Managed move could be arranged in lieu of an exclusion - maybe PPS lady is thinking that if you move rather than take up the appeal she isn't technically excluded and is getting muddled around transport.

Agree with noeuf but just to add if she moves to a mainstream school without an EHCP she'd still be entitled to transport if there isn't a suitable school within the 3 miles (juniors) 2 miles (infants). As long as she has been excluded from the nearer school.

If she gets an EHCP & goes to a special school transport would be sorted as well.

She can go to a Special School without having an EHCP
I know of children who have been found places as a result of permanent exclusion

While the statutory assessment process starts or continues mrz? Otherwise I don't see how that can happen - there are very strict conditions for it (unless parents are paying)

Statutory assessment started in Special School

State school

Right that fits - think we probably mean the same thing, terms are different.

Not school terms

One example -The statutory assessment process was started and completed in the Specual state school where the child is still being educated almost 2 years later

This sounds like a legal nightmare ... everyone passing the buck. Take the lady and a friend and if you can afford it a solicitor knowledgeable about schools. Incidents happened permanent exclusion should be done only as a very last resort of continual bad behaviour. All children are capable of these massive temper tantrums ... when did they ring? How long till you got there? Get the paperwork.

Hi mrz, that sounds in line - if the stat assessment had been refused there might have been an issue.
Op, do talk to ipsea.

Of course it's in line ... The point being the OPs child doesn't need to have a statement prior to being awarded a place in a special school. The permanent exclusion actually speeded up the process.

I'm not sure if EHCPs are applicable in Wales, I'm currently trawling through the school's individual policy on special needs and inclusion and the SEN Code of Practice for Wales.

This may take some time, so excuse me if I'm not back for a while.

Again, thank you all for you input and advice, I'm trying to find out from the policy docs what legal obligation the school and LEA have, if anyone has any insight into the system in Wales that would be brilliant.

Thanks again.

Mrz, yes technically someone can attend a ss without an ehcp or ssen in limited circumstances. My original post was just a general you can't get a ss place without an ssen or ehcp. I didn't think to include the finer detail because it didn't seem relevant - I was responding to the Op seeming concerned her dd might be placed in the ss.
Op,if you are in England then you can apply for an ehcp regardless of where your dd goes to school.

Yes baskervilles - as noeuf said- you live in England and therefore your council is responsible for the funding etc. So you need to read the English stuff - they're the ones funding it, wherever she goes to school

Right, I'll have a read of the English info, although the 1:1 provision was previously supplied by Powys from their budget, is that relevant?

Well I've just had a read through the Welsh Gov's 'Exclusion from schools and pupil referral units' and pulled out any relevant bits which I'll briefly go through, I think these are all points I can use at the meeting;

1.1.3 A decision to exclude a learner permanently is a serious
one. Itwill usually be the final step in a process for dealing with
disciplinary offences following a wide range of other strategies,
which have been tried without success (see paragraph 1.5.1 on
page11). It is an acknowledgement by the school that it has
exhausted all available strategies for dealing with the learner and
should normally be used as a last resort.

The word final is their bolding, not mine, I can't accept that all other strategies have been used and failed, a very effective strategy was in place with the 1:1 provision, which was withdrawn, I see no reason this can't be reinstated. It's certain that all strategies have not been exhausted.

Is that because it came from the school's budget? (as much of the funding has been delegated)

This is helpful in explaining why it gets confusing: www.theguardian.com/education/2013/dec/03/special-educational-needs-funding-rules-inclusive-schools

A key couple of paragraphs

One area where local authorities are not communicating effectively with schools is around their legal responsibilities for pupils with SEN. Many heads are unaware that it is the legal responsibility of the local authority – and not individual schools – to arrange the support outlined in a statement, says McConnell

This means that if a school does not have the resources to fund support for a student with high needs, the headteacher is well within his or her rights to ask for funding from the local authority. In recent months, Ipsea has successfully supported a number of schools in challenging their local authority on this point