Permanent Exclusion at Six years of age.

[HoundoftheBaskervilles]

I don't want to be writing this, I can't believe I've got here, but i need the help of the women on this board.

My daughter is six years old, I have her and a DS (who is the World's most, gentle and biddable child), DD is different, has been volatile from starting school (she was fine at pre-school).

From the age of four DD has been angry, (she's the youngest in the year, August born, and whilst I think this is contributory I don't think it's causal), she started school early and I think I may have made a mistake at putting her on the school bus as a young four year old, but, we live rurally and DH works away & I (despite repeated efforts, have yet to pass my driving test - it was expedient at the time) The first school she went to, she wigged out on the school bus, attacked other children, it wasn't great. I'm trying to precis here, but the school handled it badly, they kept putting her in isolation at the age of four and we had many meetings, I kept trying to tell them, many of her feelings are relating to rejection - she's always been insecure (for no reason - she's had a happy life - but she feels, and always has, rejection very seriously).

So we changed schools, we went to a school recommended by our peers, and it's been brilliant, so supportive, we accessed CAHMS, She had one to one support (which was ended at Easter on the behest of the LEA).

But last week, it all went wrong, she's been great at school for nine months, brilliant, not a problem, last thursday she started to go a little off the wall. Tried to abscond, it was handled ok, tried to abscond the next day, I was called in, when I got there, she'd been physically restrained for 30 mins, the two teachers who were involved in the restraint were looking resigned, but not upset. She was released and immediately went for the teacher that had restrained her, kicked her & pulled her hair, the teacher stormed off with the epitaph 'I've had it with this school',

I managed to calm her down and she wanted to apologise, we went to the office, but the teacher concerned was still crying, when she saw this DD grinned, it was a nervous grin, but it was still a grin, the secretary chased her out with a 'I don't think that's very nice DD', I just excited the area, I had to get away, I knew apologies were futile by this point.

She was excluded for three days, I had the letter yesterday, it hurt, but I understood, I went in today to what I thought was a reintegration interview, I was met by the Vicar who serves on the board of govs and was given a letter of permanent exclusion.

I've been blindsided, I'm so upset, I had 30 seconds to formulate an appropriate response. She's six, I feel she's been excluded from education forever.

SIX

Fuck - I'm so upset - I need some help here.

I think the problem is with the small size of the school. They are obviously too small to cope with the needs of your dd in terms of ensuring her safety and well-being. larger schools tend to have more resources and a wider pool of experience to draw on. please don't despair, you sound like a lovely mum in a tough situation.

DoraGora many children who 'attack' are children who will stop 'attacking' with the right input and support. Sometimes this takes a lot of time and patience, but is generally achievable. Toddlers often hit, should they all be banned from accessing nursery, or do people accept that they are learning the rules? It just takes longer for some children, they deserve a fair chance to access mainstream education.

Also, I've worked with many, many children who were violent (specialist provision in mainstream). Only once have I recommended that a pupil be moved to a different setting as they were too dangerous. All the other pupils learned (with support) to find other ways to manage their feelings, and are still in mainstream.

Interesting Dora - where should they go?

I have only skimmed the thread. It does seem over harsh that a child be excluded permanently for this one incident even if quite a serious one. I thought a procedure had to be gone through. But perhaps this has been building up and your DD can't be taught in a classroom situation with other children for the time being. But it is up to the local authority to provide education for your DD. I thought that was the rule.

Thank you all again, there's some insight there, I truly don't think there's an AS diagnosis to be had, she ticks none of the boxes (I may be wrong, I'm not a professional, but the CAHMS assessment also didn't lead in that direction).

I suspect something happened to her when she was young that made her feel unsafe, I don't want to disclose it here and I only have suspicions but my husband's brother has moved from Holland to live with us recently and I've seen a deterioration in her behaviour since he has (I don't for one minute that that he's in any way responsible, I do think though that having a 'strange' man in the house has caused her to feel insecure, she alternates between being overly affectionate and violent and angry to him, her response to him has reinforced my feelings about what may have happened before, but as I say, I have no proof and my feelings are just that, feelings).

This is not meant as a goady question, but really an attempt to marry practical reality with best case scenario.

Given its highly likely the school would have tried various calming measures and chats before laying a hand on OP's daughter; all those saying 30 minutes is unacceptable to restrain a violent, flight risk 6 year old who went on to attack a teacher once released - what practical alternative would you suggest which doesn't involve pulling more than 2 teachers out of the classroom, yet maintains the safety and wellbeing of all pupils on premises and the teachers?

How would you go on to support a teacher who felt that she was unsafe in the workplace, that the risk to her health was clearly npt recognised by the child and being minimised by the parent. What impact on the school budget and the learning of other children if they then possibly go off sick?

Whoa, in the light of this OP sounds like some serious digging needs to be done, and quick. If you have any suspicions at all you must act on them NOW.

Sorry if I'm reading your post wrong but there is so much negative fall out from not acting on concerns for all of you, esp in the light of recent events, that you must put dd first in this.

I think having another adult in the house can be trauamatic for any young child. So this could be a really important factor in her behaviour. Could she not have some kind of couselling therapy to try to get to the cause of this.You should think seriously about asking your bil to find alternative accommodation. IMHO. Hope things improve soon.

Even though your BIL has done nothing wrong, can't he find somewhere else to stay? Surely your DD comes first and given your situation you cannot accommodate him. He is a grown up who can take care of himself. She is a child who needs to be wrapped in cotton wool at the moment.

My ds would react to another adult living in the house. Not because anything has happened in the past, but because it would be too much sensory input for him to deal with.

Contact Snap Cymru, a charity which supports families in Wales in cases such as yours. They will advise you on whether or not the school has acted within the law and followed the appropriate steps etc. They will also help you in liaising with the LA re the next steps.

When I went through similar with my dd, they offered to accompany me to meetings so they should be able to support you through the appeal.

Snap Cymru helpline
0845 1203730

Ring them today. They are experts in this field.

I would question the need for 30 minutes restraint, too. I think anyone might have ended up violent after being physically restrained for that long. it's pretty frightening when you're already upset. You need to know at what point they decided to restrain her. You also need to know if they have appropriate training for restraint eg Team Teach. None of this will change what happened, but it will help you in your case for whatever happens next.

If she ran, where could she have gone? Our local primary, not a huge one, is like Fort Knox. Tall spiky fences around the perimeter and a card key lock on all doors to the outside world. DS1 did discover a flaw in the security, once, out they replaced those window locks after that particular stunt.

SNAP Cymru are a waste of space and public funds.
IME.

Dora my child who has a history of attacking staff and pupils has done nothing of the sort in the year that he's been at a school that can meet his needs. I'm sure you'd rather he was written off the the next potentially 80 years of his life, though. You never know, maybe the school fees saved would go towards the cost of incarcerating him for some of his adult life, or, if you're really lucky, he'd save you from having to worry about the likes of him any longer by killing himself.

Becles - in this case I would say the support that has been removed needs to be reinstated.

30 minutes restraining anyone is excessive & tbh short of someone wielding a knife or broken glass should not be used. If it happens the first step is to look at why, & then make immediate changes. One of the first changes would be to identify a safe area/space that the child could kick off in, if it's likely to happen again. It is much easier for children to calm if they are not being held (in most cases - a few find bring held calming, but many find it escalating). If that isn't available then different provision needs to be thought about it changes made yo the environment.

And yes I know it all takes money & LA's will only act if you can somehow hold them to account - but no-one should think 30 mind of restraint is acceptable. My son attends provisions for those with severe challenging behaviours & no-one would be restraining for that long (they tend not to do it at all) & if it did happen it would kickstart a whole load of processes to ensure it didn't happen again. It would be seen as an unacceptable incident (even had it been unavoidable - which is unlikely in a 6 year old).

First step as always ABC the incident then back to the behaviour plan. 30 minutes of restraint is the indication that something went very wrong & changes need to be made now, not in the LA timeframe of sometime next year, but now.

OP - you (unfortunately) only get anywhere gettinh support by reslly holding the LA accountable. I would approach your local councillors & CAMHS & push for more support. You can use this incident as a evidence that your Dd is not being appropriately supported. I would also ask questions about the incident (1) does she have s behaviour plan? If not why not? (2) was the behaviour plan followed. If not, why not - was it because it didn't detail What to do - in which case it needs rewriting - or was it ignored. (3) what happened immediately prior to the incident (4) why was she not moved to a safe area where she could have been released & given space to calm down.

If people know what they are doing they will be asking themselves those very same questions & will willingly give you the information. (It doesn't have to be done aggressively - my own son had an incident in school last week & I wasn't all that happy with how it was dealt with & we have had a discussion about it & will have a meeting next week - we agree about some aspects, disagree about others, but will talk it through - in the meantime we've found out the cause of the outbursts & have put support in place which is helping). Those questions are reasonable & are the sorts of things they should be discussing with you anyway.

Just to add, saying '30 minutes restraint is unacceptable' doesn't mean that you have to go in all guns blazing or putting in complaints (although you may decide that a complaint is in order), but EVERYONE should be seeing it as unacceptable and taking steps look at why it happened, and how it can be prevented from happening again.

My dd1 (7, dx'd with autism and ADHD) has attacked and hurt school staff. she wasn't excluded at all though - luckily her school recognised that she was doing so because she needed more support in place and she got that. Her behaviour has been so much better, because she's been happier and more secure. Your dd's behaviour - for whatever reason - is a sign that she's not coping. She needs an EHCP and you can start that ball rolling now.

Is moving house an option, OP? I don't mean to be facile, but it sounds as though this small rural school does not have the expertise to cope with your dd - and even if they said they'd have her back, would you want her to go somewhere that has wanted rid of her like this? I wouldn't. Like you I don't drive but I live in a city so more options...I also think 30 minutes of restraint is unlikely to have been unavoidable, she could have stayed in a room by herself or in the playground - presumably there are gates and fences and so on? Restraining my dd is a disaster I try to avoid as it absolutely ups the ante and pretty much ensures more violence not less. If you do want her back in and manage it then staff need training in de-escalation techniques and to have a planned response.

I really feel for you OP.

My dcs' old village school doesn't have effective fences and a child could get out easily (and have been known to get into the nextdoor garden to rescue balls). Not all schools are as secure as you might imagine.

One of the first changes would be to identify a safe area/space that the child could kick off in, if it's likely to happen again.

This is great if a child will stay in a safe space willingly and can use strategies to de-escalate independently. However, many children cannot do this.

It is illegal to prevent a child from leaving a space in which they are on their own so you can neither lock nor hold the door (and who would want to?). If you need to prevent them from leaving the safe space you must do so by being inside with them- if they are trying to leave you can block the doorway. The frustration this causes will make many children attack the adults in the safe space with them. I have been in this situation with another adult as watched them have their skull fractured by a headbutt. I wish we had been holding that child.

It's also remarkable difficult to actually make a space safe. Outdoors is not safe if there are open gates/ scalable fences/ bricks to break windows with etc. In the SS that I worked in that had a new calm room installed it had to be rebuilt (at expense way beyond anything a mainstream school could justify) 3 times due to unforeseen 'not safe' aspects that came to light. Even after it was pretty good we had children who could 'take out' the CCTV (4 cameras) and then we would have to go in and hold them because we couldn't observe closely enough.

I have no idea what went down at the OP's school and will not comment on that but it just isn't as straightforward as saying 'never do it'.

I would also add that even in a very specialist setting where your absolute raison d'etre is supporting emotional wellbeing there are days when you get it wrong and there has to be a Plan B for that.

Keeptrudging - do you work in a mainstream or special school? (And if special EBD or LD?) I honestly don't know anyone who wouid see 30 mins restraint as acceptable. I certainly know how strong 6 year olds can be, but they're not dangerous in the way 16 year olds are. My main objection to restraint is that it is dangeous for all - including staff & usually escalates a situation.

So if it's happened - then the first question should be 'should it have happened?' (Often the non-defensive answer to that is 'no' - there was a less restrictive optuon that should have been used). Sometimes the answer will be it was the only option. In any case it's then back to the drawing board, back to behaviour plans & back to looking at support. If you try and restrain a 16 rather than 6 year old for 30 mins there's a high chance of your staff ending up at A&E. You have to start using PBS (positive behaviour support) & deescalation techniques - & that starts by recognising that 30 mins restraint is not an appropriate long term behavioural management technique - even if in that one off incident it was the only option (which tbh is unlikely).

I shouldn't imagine the staff at the school think that 30 minutes restraint is appropriate either- so I would think that perhaps there was no other option.

saintlyjimjams you're very naive if you think a six year old can't be just as dangerous as a sixteen year old (not that I'm suggesting that thus is the case with the OPs child) .