Armed Forces' proselytism in primary schools and the question of war

[kchornik]

In the wake of the atrocities committed in Gaza, it is more urgent than ever that our children learn that war is a very serious matter and should be avoided by all means.

This week I was shocked to hear a Flight Lieutenant using the words ‘cool’, ‘fun’ and ‘exciting’ to describe his job at an ‘Inspirational Talk’ for Year 6-children and their parents, organised by a primary school, which my daughter attended. The LT is currently a member of the Royal Air Force and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other countries.

After showing a film depicting his spectacular pirouetting skills – sound-tracked with Hollywood-style, heroic music –, he recounted his career in the RAF, stressing how great his job was. He made no mention of his training or participation in armed conflicts – how odd, given that these are central remits of the armed forces! – and did not show any awareness or concerns about the humanitarian disasters caused by wars. Instead, he presented his job as a sporting adventure.

Worryingly, most children appeared positively impressed by his account. The youngsters’ questions all tallied with the partial and superficial information given to them. ‘What do you feel when you spin?’, asked one boy. In his answers, he even suggested that some could join the RAF. I wonder in what ways teachers believe these promotions might be ‘inspirational’.

Attending this talk made me realise the extent to which it is possible to manipulate and decontextualize issues of enormous implications, and that we have not sufficiently educated our children about the horrors of wars.

[identifying features removed by MNHQ]

"Obeying orders" hasn't washed as an excuse since Nuremberg.

not quite the same thing, I think you'll find

Was the talk "promoting the Armed Forces" or describing aerobatics?

The Red Arrows do not solicit engagements - they are so heavily in demand that they are turnng down requests. The school must have positively wanted this.

Questions about whether it was right need to be directed to the school.

I've read their reports, MumTryingHerBest, as I suspect most people have. What is your point, exactly?

TheFairyCaravan, with all due respect, I think that killing over half a million people in pursuit of an abstract noun is slightly more of a big issue than bailing out a house that is knee-deep in floodwater.

Nope, Evans. The Nuremberg trials established the principle that 'obeying orders' was not a permissible defence for armed forces accused of crimes.

MumTrying, I didn't miss either point. :)

I was referring to another poster's comment when I said what I would do.

As it happens we do go to airshows often. There are former RAF pilots and warcraft fans in the immediate family, all very well informed about the subject. But, I have always made my DC aware of how I feel. Love the sinner, hate the sin, if you like - that I love the mechanics and the technology of the aircraft, love the skill of the pilots but am very mindful of and greatly dislike what they do/did in service. I don't think that those two opinions are mutually exclusive.

Janine, beautifully, succinctly put. I wish I'd thought of that!

EvansOvalPiesYumYum There are plenty of countries on this planet in which we would not even be permitted to have a conversation such as this not forgetting those countries where you are expected to serve in the army and the role you hold can determine your possible career paths afterwards.

not quite the same thing, I think you'll find

Well, it's all part of the same thing, isn't it? You are saying that our forces are blameless in the face of hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians because they were told to kill them. Nazis would probably say the same thing, except that they would have more of an excuse because they were conscripted.

Would it not be possible to have an "army" of trained people, professional or reservist, to help in flood situations and crises without them having the additional chore of warfare? If I'm not mistaken the Fire Brigade, for example, manage to do just that and with heroic skill.

cruikshank I've read their reports, MumTryingHerBest, as I suspect most people have. What is your point, exactly?

How did you get hold of army reports if you are not in the army? Or are you referring to media reports which are heavily censored/Edited?

Any of our forces accused of crimes has been sentenced. Again, I think you'll find, not quite the same thing as the fascist Hitler.

Committing a civilian crime against a civilian, even when in uniform, will be punished. Action by one country against another country because of the heinous crimes they commit is viewed differently.

Of course, had Cruikshank actually been in Iraq, she would have seen all the good that we did there as well.

I'm proud of the school I helped to build. Proud of the female children getting their first education at the age of 12. Proud of the removal of the 'village elder' who had his 'pick of the girls' as soon as they had their first period. Proud of helping one family escape. Proud of getting innoculations and vaccinations to areas that were previously 'no go' and children routinely died of things like chicken pox and measles. Proud of the doctors and nurses that were able to treat the men women and children injured by mines and IED planted by their own 'people', long before NATO stepped in. Proud of the engineers that inserted a full drainage system and one working flush toilet (actually that was just as a bit of fun, as the villagers wouldn't use the toilet but found it funny to have it sitting in the square...it worked too!). Prouder still at the engineers who bridged a river that enabled families to come together for the first time in over 5 years. Even proud of the soldier that punched someone rather important in the nose for hitting a child across the face with a religious text, breaking his cheekbone in the process (soldier was disciplined for his action, but said on Orders that he would do exactly the same again). Oh and even proud for leaving behind my DVD player and a stack of Disney DVDs...even though I wasn't supposed to.

and I'm proud to have been part of a force that deposed a cruel and sadistic murderer. Someone who committed genocide. Someone who ordered the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians simply because he didn't like their creed and religion. Thousands of people....more than were killed by NATO forces and in far more horrifying and excruciating ways.

But Cruikshank and her ilk don't want to hear that, so what's the point?

As an aside the year sixes that I spoke to about my time in the Army were the same age as some of the 'fighting soldiers' I encountered in both Iraq and Bosnia, and the girls were the same age as the child I helped to have her first baby, raped by an opposing force whilst her family were slaughtered around her...

Yep. Still proud.

hoobypickypicky Would it not be possible to have an "army" of trained people, professional or reservist, to help in flood situations and crises without them having the additional chore of warfare?

Is this instead of the army we currently have?

Any of our forces accused of crimes has been sentenced. Again, I think you'll find, not quite the same thing as the fascist Hitler.

Not true, I'm afraid. The Bloody Sunday Paras, for example.

There's a lot of black and white talk here. Army coming in to do flood duty, countries with no army such as ours not allowing free speech or with an army where there is conscription and pre-determined careers.

Look at the middle ground, where there is free speech, assistance in crises and no willingness to jump into war at the drop of a hat.

Canada, anyone?

Err, MumTryingHerBest, I'm not talking about army reports but about reports from The Lancet, the WHO and loads of other organisations that are widely available. I think you're getting a little confused.

Someone who ordered the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians simply because he didn't like their creed and religion.

Yup, sounds familiar.

Very nicely said, Eve. Well done you, and all your colleagues. Thankfully, most of us feel proud of the work you all do/have done.

Action by one country against another country because of the heinous crimes they commit is viewed differently.

And what heinous crimes did the Iraqis commit against us? Because I've been thinking about it for a long time now, and I can't come up with any.

MumTrying, I'm struggling to keep up here!

Instead of the army we already have? That's a big question which deserves more of an answer than I am able to quickly type, but in an off the cuff response, why not? (See what I said about Canada, they have an army but they haven't the track record of death and destruction in other countries which we have in recent years.

What's wrong with wanting a more peaceful, less interfering country and an army which is more involved in acting in peacetime crises than in war? What's wrong with wanting schools to leave that sort of ethical decision to the parents?

cruikshank Err, MumTryingHerBest, I'm not talking about army reports but about reports from The Lancet, the WHO and loads of other organisations that are widely available. lol

After seeing what I see everyday I am far from an advocate for the armed forces but I do not belittle the choice to join or make the judgement that people do so because they were 'brainwashed' at primary school.
I have organised guest speakers to appear schools/colleges/Uni's/social groups who are all veterans from various conflicts. Especially given the centenary. Non have promoted or glamourized the forces (some have visible injuries) they just discussed it. Would these be put in the category of brainwashing our children? I see the A speaker as no different.

It is the assumption that people join up because they think it's cool or fun and that it is like playing a video game that I find distasteful. The atrocities of war are displayed on our screens at child friendly intervals throughout the day. They are front page news in out newspapers. Given that this information is out there the thought that those joining have no idea of the truths of war is what I find garbage.

This was a member of the Red Arrows not the We want you crew.

cruikshank And what heinous crimes did the Iraqis commit against us? Because I've been thinking about it for a long time now, and I can't come up with any. Could you not google a written report or news cast about it?

And what heinous crimes did the Iraqis commit against us

Sorry - where exactly did I say "against us ? I was referring to the heinous crimes he committed against his own people.

Evans can you address my point about the Bloody Sunday Paras not facing justice?

Nope

"What's wrong with wanting a more peaceful, less interfering country and an army which is more involved in acting in peacetime crises than in war?"

Nothing at all. But very dependent on what Government you vote in. we have (nearly) withdrawn all the troops that Blair committed to action

"What's wrong with wanting schools to leave that sort of ethical decision to the parents?"

Nothing at all. But there has been nothing on this thread to say what the (named) school's intention was. There is no way the Red Arrows or any one else (military or not) could speak in a schooL, without being invited in by the school.