Armed Forces' proselytism in primary schools and the question of war

[kchornik]

In the wake of the atrocities committed in Gaza, it is more urgent than ever that our children learn that war is a very serious matter and should be avoided by all means.

This week I was shocked to hear a Flight Lieutenant using the words ‘cool’, ‘fun’ and ‘exciting’ to describe his job at an ‘Inspirational Talk’ for Year 6-children and their parents, organised by a primary school, which my daughter attended. The LT is currently a member of the Royal Air Force and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other countries.

After showing a film depicting his spectacular pirouetting skills – sound-tracked with Hollywood-style, heroic music –, he recounted his career in the RAF, stressing how great his job was. He made no mention of his training or participation in armed conflicts – how odd, given that these are central remits of the armed forces! – and did not show any awareness or concerns about the humanitarian disasters caused by wars. Instead, he presented his job as a sporting adventure.

Worryingly, most children appeared positively impressed by his account. The youngsters’ questions all tallied with the partial and superficial information given to them. ‘What do you feel when you spin?’, asked one boy. In his answers, he even suggested that some could join the RAF. I wonder in what ways teachers believe these promotions might be ‘inspirational’.

Attending this talk made me realise the extent to which it is possible to manipulate and decontextualize issues of enormous implications, and that we have not sufficiently educated our children about the horrors of wars.

[identifying features removed by MNHQ]

[jcscot]

My husband (a serving soldier) has volunteered in our sons' primary school where he has taught orienteering, map-reading and other outdoor-based activites across all ages/classes.. The school (and pupils) are well-aware of his profession.

He has given one presentation in uniform (on Remembrance Day) and has given a generalised and age-appropriate presentation on D-Day.

He has thoroughly enjoyed his involvement with the school and the staff and a fair few of the parents have told us how much they've enjoyed his input (the vast majority of which has been wholly unconnected to the military). Given that he only comes home once a fortnight (as we are INVOLSEP married unaccompanied) it has meant a great deal to him to have had the involvement with our sons' classes and school.

He would hate for anyone to think that his mere presence constituted either a form of brainwashing or recruitment.

[Retropear]

Dad has Red Arrows photographs and other plane memorabilia all over his office as they were a big part of his career.Not one of his 5 grandchildren could give a shiny shit.

[Retropear]

I object to my dc being forced to sit and listen to the religious bollocks they endure on a daily basis in school than I ever would if their grandad went in to talk about his RAF career for which he was decorated for.

This type of thread really hacks me off.

You want our armed forces when the shit hits the fan but in your nice safe house miles away from any conflict or unpleasantness you want to pretend that forces aren't necessary and a big part of society.

Forces families endure a lot of shite,wanting the valuable jobs many do swept under the carpet and hidden from view is wrong.Many primary children have parents in the forces,the careers of their parents are just as valid as any other.

My dad often talks about his RAF days and none of my kids are interested in joining up.

[KenDoddsDadsDog]

What do you think of the RAF safeguarding a plane today ? What would you anti forces people want to happen if you were on it ??

[ScarlettlovesRhett]

What does the raf do?

Its strike aircraft drop bombs; these are extremely accurate and are used in conflict only, in a defensive role, if ground troops are under fire or if a legitimate military target is identified.

Its fighter aircraft are purely to defend airspace from incursion, be it British airspace or that of a conflict zone.

Transport aircraft are for personnel and supplies. Those personnel can be troops, but also evacuees from war torn countries; the supplies are regularly aid drops to areas in need as well as to the on going operations. They are also used to transport human organs for transplant throughout the UK.

The helicopters are used in conflict, to extract casualties both military and civilian and get them to medical aid. The weapons on our helicopters are for defensive purposes.

The personnel in the raf are used for their primary role (raf are specialists first, soldier second - very few raf personnel other than the regiment have fired their weapon other than on a range). They are often used for other things at a moment's notice: Lockerbie, foot & mouth outbreak, fire strike, floods, snow clearance, security for events such as Olympics/commonwealth games, fly pasts for various events, prison guard strikes etc etc etc

You said you were well informed about our forces cruikshank, yet you persist to carry on with your anti forces rhetoric with apparently very little idea about the role of the raf, which was the organisation represented in the OP.

[MumTryingHerBest]

SevenZarkSeven Nasty thread. Well by your own admission you haven't actually read the thread.

SevenZarkSeven How people with one hand can say oh look the poor palestinians getting bombed and on the other yeah well who knows how many Iraqis lol. Just, if it's our boys doing the killing hurrah get in and if it's someone elses oh dear that's terrible. Just like cruikshank you have posted something that no one has even come close to saying.

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

head - desk

[mrz]

No one has said that SevenZarkSeven.

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

Zark - I really think you need to read the entire thread (if you can be bothered)!

[SevenZarkSeven]

I'm going to hide this I am finding some of the attitudes really upsetting.

How people with one hand can say oh look the poor palestinians getting bombed and on the other yeah well who knows how many Iraqis lol. Just, if it's our boys doing the killing hurrah get in and if it's someone elses oh dear that's terrible.

Nasty thread.

[MumTryingHerBest]

SevenZarkSeven I really don't get the joke, sorry. We are talking about thousands upon thousands of civiilans killed. I'll refer you to:

cruikshank it looks like you are laughing about the fact (and it is a fact) that hundreds of thousands of innocent people died in that conflict. Is that your point? To make it quite clear, I was not laughing at the fact that hundreds of thousands of innocent people died.

(just 9 posts up)

[SevenZarkSeven]

How do you think they are going to get a "true head count" when it happened years ago and the place is in huge disarray.

Are you just going to keep laughing at anyone who tries to put a figure on it until some kind of official register is in (never going to happen).

It's all a bit grim. It's just not funny.

[mrz]

cruik is the Joke

[SevenZarkSeven]

I really don't get the joke, sorry. We are talking about thousands upon thousands of civiilans killed.

[MumTryingHerBest]

SevenZarkSeven basically it is unlikely that a true head count will be established for some time. Quoting a figure (especially such a precise figure i.e. did they have orders to stop shooting once they had killed the 600,000 person) and then passing it off as "fact" diminishes any real credibility.

I tried to point out that claiming to be The expert on a topic for which much of the information is likely to be censored and excluded from the public domain, was questionable.

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

As an aside - I've just noticed that a programme on the Red Arrows has just finished. I missed it, but will try to catch up with it. I'm sure it will be very interesting, with not a bomb or killing in sight . . .

[mrz]

Do you seriously believe that one visit at age 10/11 will have them all queuing in 6 years time to join the Red Arrows?

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

Questioning the actions taken by the armed forces and the orders given to them and the situations they get embroiled in is extremely important.

Of course it is incredibly important, Zark - but the whole world questioning the actions of the Israelis at the moment is not doing much good, is it? So if some countries disbanded their armed forces (in place mainly as a defensive), they would have no defence at all against an invading force.

Asking the question - "Erm - are you sure you want to invade my country and rape my daughters and burn my house down right now before we've had a discussion and I've been given the opportunity to question you" - wouldn't quite wash, I don't think. Could you imagine Hitler's forces stepping back to assess the situation? It wouldn't have worked with Ceau?escu either. Luckily, other sensible countries were able to step in and help

For such a situation as world peace to work, the whole world has to agree, and at the moment, the whole world doesn't agree (and I can't see it happening in the near future).

Seeing OUR armed forces as only offensive and merely as a killing machine is unfair, as they do so much more. They do excellent work, and defend us and keep us safe.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

I completely agree with you OP. I don't think the armed forces should be invited into primary schools.

If invited into secondaries it should be only as part of a wide range of career information and in the proper context of a broad understanding of war and peace-building challenges so that children can make informed choices.

Of course a commitment of any kind to the armed forces isn't something for children to be considering, certainly not to be able to make as at present (IIRC can currently make some sort of commitment at 16+?)

[mrz]

I think mum was laughing at cruik's post

[MumTryingHerBest]

SevenZarkSeven Questioning the actions taken by the armed forces and the orders given to them and the situations they get embroiled in is extremely important. - Quite agree but that's slightly different from branding everyone in the army as a killer.

Like some other people on this thread I would have reservations if I were the OP The OP sat in on the talk yet did nothing to remove themselves or their DC. Why wait until afterwards to object when nothing can be done to prevent it? That's not the same as having your DC exposed to a discussion without your prior knowledge or the opportunity to have your DC excused from the talk.

[SevenZarkSeven]

What were you laughing about? Sorry only skipped through the thread.

[MumTryingHerBest]

cruikshank see one of the reasons I'm finding it very hard to join in on your way of thinking is:

who 'lol' at over half a million people dying

'lol' about 600,00+ dead civilians

(one of which - the biggest - came up with the figure of over a million dead; a few others found around the 600,000 mark, another thought it was around 300,000)


cruikshank Err, MumTryingHerBest, I'm not talking about army reports but about reports from The Lancet, the WHO and loads of other organisations that are widely available. lol

cruikshank it looks like you are laughing about the fact (and it is a fact) that hundreds of thousands of innocent people died in that conflict. Is that your point? To make it quite clear, I was not laughing at the fact that hundreds of thousands of innocent people died.

[SevenZarkSeven]

"So the Palestinians are being bombed to oblivion at the moment. Do you accept that is just, or if it were you, would you wish to fight back to protect yourself?"

They are being bombed to oblivion by the military forces of another country. A country that sees what it is doing is right, the civilians of that country seeing it as right, and the armed forced themselves following orders which they see as right to defend themselves (according to polls taken).

It is not as simple as armed forces = good and anyone who questions that = stupid / naive / whatever.

Questioning the actions taken by the armed forces and the orders given to them and the situations they get embroiled in is extremely important.

Like some other people on this thread I would have reservations if I were the OP.

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

Actually, flipping back through the thread very quickly - a number of people have disagreed with you throughout, but you've not taken any of the comments on board at all, it would appear. Of course you are entitled to your point of view, but this is a discussion thread, therefore, points of view are discussed, and should be done without the need for personal insults being bandied about.