Armed Forces' proselytism in primary schools and the question of war

[kchornik]

In the wake of the atrocities committed in Gaza, it is more urgent than ever that our children learn that war is a very serious matter and should be avoided by all means.

This week I was shocked to hear a Flight Lieutenant using the words ‘cool’, ‘fun’ and ‘exciting’ to describe his job at an ‘Inspirational Talk’ for Year 6-children and their parents, organised by a primary school, which my daughter attended. The LT is currently a member of the Royal Air Force and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other countries.

After showing a film depicting his spectacular pirouetting skills – sound-tracked with Hollywood-style, heroic music –, he recounted his career in the RAF, stressing how great his job was. He made no mention of his training or participation in armed conflicts – how odd, given that these are central remits of the armed forces! – and did not show any awareness or concerns about the humanitarian disasters caused by wars. Instead, he presented his job as a sporting adventure.

Worryingly, most children appeared positively impressed by his account. The youngsters’ questions all tallied with the partial and superficial information given to them. ‘What do you feel when you spin?’, asked one boy. In his answers, he even suggested that some could join the RAF. I wonder in what ways teachers believe these promotions might be ‘inspirational’.

Attending this talk made me realise the extent to which it is possible to manipulate and decontextualize issues of enormous implications, and that we have not sufficiently educated our children about the horrors of wars.

[identifying features removed by MNHQ]

[hoobypickypicky]

"What I want to stress here, is that the bloke in question did suggest several kids - aged 11 - they joined the RAF. And this was done on the school's premises."

FlossyMoo, to me at any rate that counts as the "We want you crew".

Bear in mind too that these images are splashed across the media almost daily but that a lot of parents, rightly or wrongly, shield their DC from them. I know parents like it and I've seen posters on MN state that! The news goes off, the paper is folded over and those DC are less aware of the harsh side of war than mine. That doesn't give some of these DC an accurate idea of the realities.

[EveDallasRetd]

Umm, I worked alongside Canadians in both Bosnia and Iraq. Canadians, Americans, Malaysians, Dutch, Norweigians, Irish, Nepalese, German and Australian.

NATO sends all it's forces and then some.

[JanineStHubbins]

Evans Er, ok. Guess that amounts to an admission that your earlier point was, er, bollocks then. Cheers.

[FlossyMoo]

Eve

I am amazed by what you have done. I am also grateful for the work you and all those involved do. You have every righto feel proud.
I think some people forget that our soldiers are also sons, sister, brothers and loved ones who's purpose for joining is not to maim and kill but to protect and preserve.

[EveDallasRetd]

Thanks Flossy and Evans, means a lot

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

Just don't know enough about it to offer an informed opinion, really, Janine. So not bollocks (not sure why the need to swear, but heyho)

Maybe someone else may be able to answer you?

[TheFairyCaravan]

As the mother of 2 older teens (19.5 and 17.5) I can tell you that you can educate and shield as much as you like, but they will find their own way in life.

Once they are 18 they can do what they like, join what they like and you can't stop them. The best thing to do ime and imo is support them.

[hoobypickypicky]

AuntieStella - "What's wrong with wanting schools to leave that sort of ethical decision to the parents?"

Nothing at all. But there has been nothing on this thread to say what the (named) school's intention was. There is no way the Red Arrows or any one else (military or not) could speak in a schooL, without being invited in by the school."

So the school should not have made the decision to invite the Arrows without at first clarifying precisely what topics would be covered and insisting that there should be a balanced discussion with no apparent recruitment drive. This is, after all, a very sensitive issue on which, as this thread demonstrates, people have remarkably strong ethical opinions,

The school may not have had any intentions one way or another but imho they didn't think it through very well ahead of the event and by not doing so have screwed up because of the way the discussion rolled out.

[EveDallasRetd]

Janine, the Bloody Sunday soldiers were not prosecuted because until the end of the 12 year enquiry which found otherwise, they were not accused of doing anything wrong.

Now that the enquiry has found otherwise, there are (I think) 18 soldiers being investigated for trial.

Answer your question?

[MumTryingHerBest]

hoobypickypicky And this was done on the school's premises." a crucial point I think. The school invited them in and should surely have set boundaries as to what would be deemed unsuitable. Personally I think the actions of the school should be questioned more than the actions of the person giving the presentation. After all, If I was asked to talk to children about my job I would be unlikely to tell them about the bad things and would admittedly focus on the positives.

[JanineStHubbins]

Fair enough, Evans. I suggest, then, that you are not quite informed enough to make statements such as Any of our forces accused of crimes have been sentenced.

You might be interested to know that a British tribunal of inquiry identified British soldiers who unlawfully killed 13 unarmed British citizens in 1972. Their identities have not been made public, but are known to army and judicial authorities. None of them have faced criminal charges.

That's just one of dozens of examples I could instance, merely from Ireland.

[FlossyMoo]

FlossyMoo, to me at any rate that counts as the "We want you crew".

Anymore so than someone from the police going and doing a talk?

I believe that our fine constabulary is a racist, sexist puss filled ball of bribery and all manner of unlawful act goes on daily. But for some reason a copper going in to schools and promoting the police force is ok.

For me it is about educating your children. It should not be the sole responsibility of the school. If my child returned home and said a soldier came in today and said I should join up then I would make sure he/she knew all that entailed. The same way as if they came home and said they wanted to join the police.

[hoobypickypicky]

Eve, (genuinely) I bow to your far superior knowledge and hold my hands up to ignorance of everything but my ethics! :)

I can only argue that although NATO sent in Canadians and others to Bosnia and Iraq it wasn't, as far as my limited understanding leads me to believe, the Canadians, for example, who were the most pro-active in wanting the troops sent out there in the first place.

To me, Canada is an example of a country which has freedom, no conscription and an army but is less trigger happy than our own, and maybe, just perhaps, the take on armed forces and welfare held by the powers in our own country eventually filters down to a greater tolerance of the sort of discussion event held in the OP's school than some of us would like.

I'm not explaining it very well but I hope I've sort of put over what I'm trying to say.

[EveDallasRetd]

X post Janine. You are wrong. They have all been notified of investigation and possible trial. The 'powers that be' have been asking for witnesses across the forces, ex forces and civilian to come forward and have offered anonymity and immunity on receipt of their information.

So they haven't been charged yet - you need a new horse to flog, that ones dead.

[hoobypickypicky]

MumTrying, very, very much so. My annoyance is with the school for not making it clear what would and would not be acceptable during a talk on what is a very emotive and sensitive subject for some families, not with the Arrows pilots for doing what they thought they should be doing (unless of course they'd been told not to and ignored the instruction).

[AuntieStella]

"So the school should not have made the decision to invite the Arrows without at first clarifying precisely what topics would be covered and insisting that there should be a balanced discussion with no apparent recruitment drive. This is, after all, a very sensitive issue on which, as this thread demonstrates, people have remarkably strong ethical opinions,"

We do not, however, know that any of thse steps were absent.

Nor does any of the description really sound like a 'recruitment drive' (though subsequent posts have described actions at secondary schools career fairs. The Red Arrows are not any part of that, though).

[JanineStHubbins]

They have all been notified of investigation and possible trial...They haven't been charged yet

Forgive me if I'll wait to see justice actually done, Eve. The track record of the army and British establishment is not good.

[hoobypickypicky]

FlossyMoo, it's not in the brief of the police to kill people who attack them. It sometimes is an accepted part of the job for the armed forces. The two are incomparable.

Aside from the bad eggs in the police or any other organisation their objective is very different to the army's.

[MumTryingHerBest]

JanineStHubbins The track record of the army and British establishment is not good. Just the British Army and British estblishment?

[JanineStHubbins]

Mum what's your point?

[MumTryingHerBest]

hoobypickypicky FlossyMoo, it's not in the brief of the police to kill people who attack them. nor is it for everyone in the army. There are many careers in the army, not all of them are frontline attack.

[MumTryingHerBest]

JanineStHubbins Mum what's your point? It wasn't a point, it was a question.

[hoobypickypicky]

I did say "sometimes". MumTrying.

[JanineStHubbins]

Ok then. The British army and British establishment do not have a monopoly on malfeasance. But the BA is the subject of discussion on this thread.