Armed Forces' proselytism in primary schools and the question of war

[kchornik]

In the wake of the atrocities committed in Gaza, it is more urgent than ever that our children learn that war is a very serious matter and should be avoided by all means.

This week I was shocked to hear a Flight Lieutenant using the words ‘cool’, ‘fun’ and ‘exciting’ to describe his job at an ‘Inspirational Talk’ for Year 6-children and their parents, organised by a primary school, which my daughter attended. The LT is currently a member of the Royal Air Force and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other countries.

After showing a film depicting his spectacular pirouetting skills – sound-tracked with Hollywood-style, heroic music –, he recounted his career in the RAF, stressing how great his job was. He made no mention of his training or participation in armed conflicts – how odd, given that these are central remits of the armed forces! – and did not show any awareness or concerns about the humanitarian disasters caused by wars. Instead, he presented his job as a sporting adventure.

Worryingly, most children appeared positively impressed by his account. The youngsters’ questions all tallied with the partial and superficial information given to them. ‘What do you feel when you spin?’, asked one boy. In his answers, he even suggested that some could join the RAF. I wonder in what ways teachers believe these promotions might be ‘inspirational’.

Attending this talk made me realise the extent to which it is possible to manipulate and decontextualize issues of enormous implications, and that we have not sufficiently educated our children about the horrors of wars.

[identifying features removed by MNHQ]

[FlossyMoo]

After showing a film depicting his spectacular pirouetting skills – sound-tracked with Hollywood-style, heroic music –, Parr recounted his career in the RAF, stressing how great his job was. He made no mention of his training or participation in armed conflicts – how odd, given that these are central remits of the armed forces! – and did not show any awareness or concerns about the humanitarian disasters caused by wars. Instead, he presented his job as a sporting adventure.

Worryingly, most children appeared positively impressed by his account. The youngsters’ questions all tallied with the partial and superficial information given to them. ‘What do you feel when you spin?’, asked one boy. In his answers, Parr even suggested that some could join the RAF. I wonder in what ways teachers believe these promotions might be ‘inspirational’.

The children were positive and animated about the 'spins'. Not about bombing villages.
The OP even says he mentioned nothing of his army training or armed conflict. I would assume the school told him not to.
Yes they could join the RAF just the same way they could join the fire brigade or the police force. What was he expected to tell them no you cannot??
A fireman is not going to go I to a school and discuss how many of his colleagues are killed just doing their job. He is not going to discuss how he has pulled dead babies from fire torn homes is he?. Yet a fireman doing a talk and promoting his job would not be looked upon the same way as the RA pilot.

[TheFairyCaravan]

Very true Flossy. My dad was a Fireman I know nothing of the nasty bits about his job. Likewise, I know nothing of the nasty bits of DH's job. I don't ask, he doesn't tell.

[MumTryingHerBest]

JanineStHubbins Ok then. The British army and British establishment do not have a monopoly on malfeasance. But the BA is the subject of discussion on this thread. Really, I've seen plenty of posts mentioning other military forces.

[Bilberry]

Cruikshank let's say for arguments sake that the Russians won WWII (and the support of other countries including by feeding the Russians is by the by as is the fact we weren't only fighting Germany). You cannot, surely, argue that the iron curtain was not drawn where it was because of the other allied forces? Would you rather that form of communism had spread across the whole of Europe? What do you think Ukraine should do now?

Also, I take it you didn't vote for Labour when Tony Blair was leader as if you did you would be as guilty as anyone for the atrocities in post-war Iraq.

[TheFairyCaravan]

Mum A lot of MNetters are ignorant to the fact the Armed Forces GP further than the Army. There is no point trying to educate them, I'm afraid!

[JanineStHubbins]

Don't worry, Mum, I'm equally opportunities when it comes to armed forces. Militarism is dangerous wherever it occurs.

The posts upthread which mention other armed forces are in comparison with/relation to the British forces, which is what the vast majority of posters are discussing.

[JanineStHubbins]

*equal opportunities

[AuntieStella]

"A lot of MNetters are ignorant to the fact the Armed Forces GP further than the Army."

Remarkably apposite on a thread which began with naming a specific Red Arrows pilot speaking in one school.

[FlossyMoo]

FlossyMoo, it's not in the brief of the police to kill people who attack them. It sometimes is an accepted part of the job for the armed forces. The two are incomparable.

Do you really think this is the line used in the army? Here son have a gun now go off and shoot the innocent

You clearly are ill informed about the different roles within the army and very ill informed about how they train infantry soldiers.

[cruikshank]

Firemen do not, to my knowledge, kill civilians.

MumTrying, I am also asking you what is your point with your 'lol' response to saying that The Lancet, the WHO and others have published statistics re Iraqi civilian deaths. I do no understand why you would 'lol' at it.

And Evans, re your question:

Sorry - where exactly did I say "against us ? I was referring to the heinous crimes he committed against his own people.

I was talking about your post here:

Action by one country against another country because of the heinous crimes they commit is viewed differently.

which I quoted in my response to you.

[cruikshank]

Bilberry, of course I would much rather that communism had taken over the entire world and that everyone in it had been sent to labour camps - that is exactly what I am driving at by simply stating that the Russians won WWII.

[MumTryingHerBest]

AuntieStella Remarkably apposite on a thread which began with naming a specific Red Arrows pilot speaking in one school. Then repeatedly bangs on about objecting to children being told how cool and fun it is to fight and kill people because, after all, that's all people do in the army.

I have to say, the army presentation I attended when I was at school covered a huge number of career opportunities. Before anyone asks, no I did not join the army nor do I intend to.

Mind you the main reason I would give my kids for not joining the army is because of how badly funded it is. It has been stripped to the bone so much I hope we never experience another world war.

[MumTryingHerBest]

cruikshank MumTrying, I am also asking you what is your point with your 'lol' response to saying that The Lancet, the WHO and others have published statistics re Iraqi civilian deaths. I do no understand why you would 'lol' at it. I think I've made my point already

[FlossyMoo]

Of course they don't cruik but part of the OP was that he (RA man) did not discuss his army training or armed conflict there by giving the children the other/good side of his exciting job. The same way a fire fighter wold not discuss the awful side of his job but focus on the exciting stuff. Hence my comparison.

[hoobypickypicky]

"Do you really think this is the line used in the army? Here son have a gun now go off and shoot the innocent "

Do you really think that I think that?

"You clearly are ill informed about the different roles within the army and very ill informed about how they train infantry soldiers."

You clearly didn't read my post to Eve properly where I admitted not being au fait with it all - I don't profess to be so I don't know what you're ing about - and you clearly didn't read the other post/s where I mentioned that SOMETIMES it's an accepted part of the job to kill

You're making an argument personal attack out of an interesting discussion. I find that a little rude and unnecessary.

[TheFairyCaravan]

Anyone watching the RA documentary? Its very interesting!

[JanineStHubbins]

I also found Mum's lol at reports that detailed over 600,000 excess Iraqi deaths extraordinarily crass

[MumTryingHerBest]

JanineStHubbins I also found Mum's lol at reports that detailed over 600,000 excess Iraqi deaths extraordinarily crass I'm sure you did, simply because you completely missed the point. Out of interest have either of you ever spoken directly with anyone who served in active duty in Iraq, or anywhere for that mater?

[cruikshank]

The 'awful side' of a firefighters job does not involve killing civilians for political ends. Shielding children from the realities of that is not the same thing at all as a career solider going into a school and talking about whizzy planes and cool flying stuff and isn't it all great.

Agree with the poster upthread who said that lots of children don't know about the political/social realities of war - most of my friends don't let their kids watch the news.

[FlossyMoo]

You implied it was the brief of the army. It is not.

It was not a personal attack so get off your offended horse. I said you were ill informed. Had I called you a name or sworn t you then yes I would accept personnel attack but I didn't. So stop trying to say I did.

[JanineStHubbins]

What is the point, please, Mum? More than one poster has evidently missed it.

For what it's worth, I have spoken with former British soldiers, both from Iraq and other operations.

[hoobypickypicky]

That's an interesting way of looking at the manner in which you addressed me, FlossyMoo. We must perhaps agree to differ.

cruikshank, as someone very obviously far better informed than me, (and again meant genuinely, no sarcasm intended), thank you. You're saying all I want to say myself.

[cruikshank]

I think I've made my point already

You didn't make it clearly enough for me. From here, it looks like you are laughing about the fact (and it is a fact) that hundreds of thousands of innocent people died in that conflict. Is that your point?

[MumTryingHerBest]

JanineStHubbins For what it's worth, I have spoken with former British soldiers, both from Iraq and other operations. How much of what they have told you about their own personal experiences is in those reports you have read?

[EveDallasRetd]

OK, firemen don't, but policemen do - would you object to a talk by a police officer? What about a doctor - I mean, Harold Shipman killed, so are all doctors bad?

Oh actually Firemen took strike action didn't they? The military had to step in because lives were at risk. Not very noble, maybe they should keep out of schools as well.

Do you use Nestle products? They are responsible for the deaths of hundred of thousands of babies.

What about wearing Primark clothes?
Or drinking Coca cola?

Would you be happy for any of these employees to come into a school?