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Armed Forces' proselytism in primary schools and the question of war

327 replies

kchornik · 27/07/2014 11:15

In the wake of the atrocities committed in Gaza, it is more urgent than ever that our children learn that war is a very serious matter and should be avoided by all means.

This week I was shocked to hear a Flight Lieutenant using the words ‘cool’, ‘fun’ and ‘exciting’ to describe his job at an ‘Inspirational Talk’ for Year 6-children and their parents, organised by a primary school, which my daughter attended. The LT is currently a member of the Royal Air Force and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other countries.

After showing a film depicting his spectacular pirouetting skills – sound-tracked with Hollywood-style, heroic music –, he recounted his career in the RAF, stressing how great his job was. He made no mention of his training or participation in armed conflicts – how odd, given that these are central remits of the armed forces! – and did not show any awareness or concerns about the humanitarian disasters caused by wars. Instead, he presented his job as a sporting adventure.

Worryingly, most children appeared positively impressed by his account. The youngsters’ questions all tallied with the partial and superficial information given to them. ‘What do you feel when you spin?’, asked one boy. In his answers, he even suggested that some could join the RAF. I wonder in what ways teachers believe these promotions might be ‘inspirational’.

Attending this talk made me realise the extent to which it is possible to manipulate and decontextualize issues of enormous implications, and that we have not sufficiently educated our children about the horrors of wars.

[identifying features removed by MNHQ]

OP posts:
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spanieleyes · 27/07/2014 18:59

On BBC2 tonight at 9pm, there's a whole hour about the Red Arrows, For Heaven's sake, don't let anyone under the age of 18 watch or they will be joining up right, left and centre Grin

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AICM · 27/07/2014 19:02

Thanks for the warning Spaniel! Close shave there! And here was me being proud of our armed forces. Thankfully our academic betters are on hand to educate us about the evil plans of the RAF.

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AuntieStella · 27/07/2014 19:08

Aos they should have invited in Red Bull aerobatic/race pilots instead?

Though of course many of those have airforce experience (not necessarily RAF, though).

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MumTryingHerBest · 27/07/2014 19:12

kchornik I think it would have been highly beneficial for you to have sat in on the presentation as you clearly have no idea what the armed forces do.

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MumTryingHerBest · 27/07/2014 19:19

blueemerald Funny that not one student has signed up since we stopped the recruitment guys dropping in every 5 minutes (they come once a year to our careers fair, like everyone else). - Personally I think it more odd that the parents of the children who were brain washed were unable to discuss the pros and cons with their children prior to signing the consent form for them to sign up.

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TheFairyCaravan · 27/07/2014 19:23

I hate these threads.

If a police officer had gone into a school that would have been fine even though they kill people. God forbid any member of the Armed Forces goes in and they are automatically "brainwashing" and trying to get them to join up at 11! Hmm

DS1 told his teacher on the last day of Yr2 he was going to be a soldier, he is now 4 weeks in to Phase 1 training in the Army. He has used the words 'fun' 'cool' and 'exciting', as has DH over his 27.5yr military career, but he has also said he is knackered and fed up at times! He spent the whole of his time at Junior school, Secondary school and Sixth Form college having teachers trying to 'brainwash' him that the armed forces are bad and he was too good and too intelligent for them! (He has all As and A*s at GCSE and AAB at A level).

Each and everyone of those 35 men who joined up with DS1 know what the Armed Forces do. Being told it was cool at 11 would not have had any bearing on their decision imo.

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LynetteScavo · 27/07/2014 19:24

A talk in my DCs state primary school promoting the armed forces as cool, fun and exciting would mildly annoy me (although I don't doubt certain aspects of the forces are cool, fun and excited, or nobody would ever join!).

But the armed forces are funded by the government (as are state schools) to protect our country, so I'm surprised more of this doesn't go on!

War is not glamorous. I thought that had finally been established, but maybe not. War poetry didn't touch me in the least when I was at school! At GCSE or A level. My friends mum crying because her older brother in the army had been sent abroad and she was scared he would be killed was much more effective at demonstrating the reality of war.

And 16 is too young to join the armed forces IMO. I would much prefer it it be 18yo.

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cruikshank · 27/07/2014 19:33

I would also be unimpressed by this, OP, just as I am unimpressed by the childish remarks of people dismissing your concerns on this thread. Joining the army is not a neutral act, particularly now that the army have for about as long as I can remember been involved in conflicts that no-one should be proud of fighting - Iraq? Afghanistan? Really? Do Mnetters think that representatives of these conflicts should be talking to school children about how 'cool' and 'fun' their jobs are?

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charleybarley · 27/07/2014 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cruikshank · 27/07/2014 19:37

LynetteScavo, ostensibly the armed forces' job might be to protect our country, but I didn't feel that they were particularly concerned with protecting me or anyone else in the UK when they flattened Baghdad. The army these days is populated by soldiers who engage in missions that are at least questionable if not outright abuses of power in the name of waging war on an abstract noun by bombing the fuck out of innocent men, women and children. It is a sorry state of affairs, and anyone involved in it should be staying the fuck away from our schools.

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EveDallasRetd · 27/07/2014 19:39

I'm very proud of the work I did in Iraq Cruickshank, why shouldn't I be? You obviously don't know half of what went on there.

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AuntieStella · 27/07/2014 19:41

OP has not stated the school's purpose in inviting him.

Aerobatics is "cool" and "fun" and if that is what he was describing, it is fair comment. It is totally up to the school to decide who they invite. As OP named the school I hope she has also told them that she is criticising a decision that was solely theirs in a globally published forum.

The Red Arrows spend turn down more requests than they accept. They're not out hunting for opportunities. Quite the contrary.

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cruikshank · 27/07/2014 19:41

I agree that there is some debate as to how many civilians you and your fellow 'heros' killed, but I think we can also agree that there were plenty of them.

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TheFairyCaravan · 27/07/2014 19:42

cruikshank the Armed Forces went into Iraq and Afghanistan because they were told to. The politicians decided to go to war, not them!
And just to make you froth a bit more, DS1 plans to become a teacher when he has finished in the Forces!

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FlossyMoo · 27/07/2014 19:43

But that wasn't the case was it cruik

It was a member of the Red Arrows who was discussing his current job and last time I looked the RA were doing festivals and national events not dropping bombs in Iraq.

There are regular advertisements on tv & radio promoting joining the forces. There is an even per week at the moment regarding the armed forces due to the centenary.

There is not a league of Army sign up crews going around schools endorsing joining up as being cool/fun/awesome/without risk. That is a ridiculous thing to say.
It is the government that make the decision on which war to fight and everyman or women who signs up knows that going in to a combat zone and fighting a war because he government tell you to is a real possibility.

However we will forget about all the non fighting/war actions the armed forces provide because well some aren't interested in that Hmm

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AuntieStella · 27/07/2014 19:44

"They allow the military into primary schools?"

I think schools can invite pretty much who they like. The Red Arrows aren't touted around, for they are very heavily scheduled. They never solicit engagements.

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cruikshank · 27/07/2014 19:48

TheFairyCaravan, soldiers in the UK forces aren't conscripted though - they choose to sign up, and plenty of them chose to sign up and take part in the slaughter of Iraqi people.

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EveDallasRetd · 27/07/2014 19:51

Add message | Report | Message poster cruikshank Sun 27-Jul-14 19:41:30
I agree that there is some debate as to how many civilians you and your fellow 'heros' killed, but I think we can also agree that there were plenty of them

I'm not a hero Cruikshank, and never said I was. I know a few though Smile

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cruikshank · 27/07/2014 19:51

FlossyMoo, yes I realise that the chap was in the Red Arrows. But all of those kids sitting there thinking 'ooh that sounds cool' will most likely not end up in the red arrows, even if they do join the forces - a soldier on here has even said as much. So why have them there? What purpose are the red arrows hoping to serve by going into schools and talking to children about how cool their job is? The only likely explanation I can think for it is that they want children to think being in the red arrows is cool, and therefore being a soldier is cool, and then joining the army. And then killing people. If that isn't the desired result, why go?

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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 27/07/2014 19:52

Cruikshank - may I venture the argument that your opinion is naïve in the extreme? If it had not been for our wonderful armed forces, we would not now be fortunate enough to live in the democratic country that we do.

WWI, WWII - ring any bells with you?

They are there to ensure peace-keeping as well as sometimes necessary offensive tactics.

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cruikshank · 27/07/2014 19:53

Yes, EveDallas, what we did in Iraq was completely heroic. The Lancet estimates you and your heroic friends killed over half a million people. Other studies think it is more.

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EveDallasRetd · 27/07/2014 19:54

They allow the military into primary schools?

Yep, every single day...and sometimes even in uniform Smile

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cruikshank · 27/07/2014 19:55

WWI was an unnecessary war. WWII yes was necessary, but wasn't won by us but by the Russians. Pretty much every conflict I can think of that we have been involved in in my lifetime has been shameful - drones in Pakistan, anyone? Do you really think they are safeguarding your democracy?

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EveDallasRetd · 27/07/2014 19:56

The Red Arrows chap was probably asked to go in by the HT. I was, and I'm no where near as cool as a Red Arrow Smile. Just a person doing a great job and very proud of doing it.

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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 27/07/2014 19:57

Cruikshank - have you any idea of the atrocities committed by Sadam Hussain upon his own people?

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