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Primary education

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Armed Forces' proselytism in primary schools and the question of war

327 replies

kchornik · 27/07/2014 11:15

In the wake of the atrocities committed in Gaza, it is more urgent than ever that our children learn that war is a very serious matter and should be avoided by all means.

This week I was shocked to hear a Flight Lieutenant using the words ‘cool’, ‘fun’ and ‘exciting’ to describe his job at an ‘Inspirational Talk’ for Year 6-children and their parents, organised by a primary school, which my daughter attended. The LT is currently a member of the Royal Air Force and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other countries.

After showing a film depicting his spectacular pirouetting skills – sound-tracked with Hollywood-style, heroic music –, he recounted his career in the RAF, stressing how great his job was. He made no mention of his training or participation in armed conflicts – how odd, given that these are central remits of the armed forces! – and did not show any awareness or concerns about the humanitarian disasters caused by wars. Instead, he presented his job as a sporting adventure.

Worryingly, most children appeared positively impressed by his account. The youngsters’ questions all tallied with the partial and superficial information given to them. ‘What do you feel when you spin?’, asked one boy. In his answers, he even suggested that some could join the RAF. I wonder in what ways teachers believe these promotions might be ‘inspirational’.

Attending this talk made me realise the extent to which it is possible to manipulate and decontextualize issues of enormous implications, and that we have not sufficiently educated our children about the horrors of wars.

[identifying features removed by MNHQ]

OP posts:
EveDallasRetd · 29/07/2014 21:58

They have quilts now Evans. Disgusting I call it, they should be learning hospital corners and centre creases you can bounce a 10p off like I did Wink. Nothing quite as satisfying as a perfect bed block at 0500 Grin

MumTryingHerBest · 29/07/2014 22:00

cruikshank would you object to someone who did the following jobs telling school children how cool their jobs were?

Musician
Student Nurse
HR Specialist
Dental Nurse
Veterinary Technician
Plasterer & Painter
Healthcare Assistant
Riding Instructor
Carpenter & Joiner
Plumber
Chaplain
Legal Officer
Chef
Bricklayer
Tailor

cruikshank · 29/07/2014 22:05

Yes. Yes, I would. Hmm

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 29/07/2014 22:07

Quilts? Oh, good grief, what is this country stooping to?

Grin
MumTryingHerBest · 29/07/2014 22:09

*cruikshank Yes. Yes, I would - so what job would you deep appropriate to tell school children about?

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 29/07/2014 22:09

Yes. Yes, I would

Why, exactly? Furthermore, what professions exactly would you approve of. I'm really interested to know

FlossyMoo · 29/07/2014 22:41

They do in some regiments use quilts Shock however they still teach them to iron a shirt with the expertise of a scullery maid Grin

Not just making beds.

TheFairyCaravan · 29/07/2014 22:50

They don't even have to do their own washing in training anymore! I was gobsmacked to learn DS1 takes his to the laundry one day and picks it up the next. Shock.

He is a dab hand at ironing he was practicing on DH's combats before he went!

MoreBeta · 29/07/2014 22:55

I have forbidden DSs joining CCF at school for this reason. It is a private school and a bit of a recruiting ground for the local regiment.

DSs recently visited the WWI war graves and trenches in Northern France. DS2 likewise just learned about the D Day Landings and visited the beaches where the landing took place. DS2 is well aware his Great Grandad shelled the beach and killed German men in the pillboxes just metres from where he stood.

l am pleased they got a small view of the horror of war.

FlossyMoo · 29/07/2014 23:01

As he asked to join the CCF?

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 29/07/2014 23:20

I'm unsure as to why you may have forbidden it, MoreBeta. Have your sons actively expressed a wish to join and you are not allowing it? Or are you pre-empting a possible desire?

MassaAttack · 30/07/2014 08:22

I can imagine feeling differently about my child joining a CCF detachment based at school rather than an ACF detachment with no real school links.

Ex-pupils going to Sandhurst looks good, basically.

My son is an Army Cadet btw, with my blessing. But I can see where I think Beta is coming from.

MassaAttack · 30/07/2014 12:48

Going back to the op, I'm of the opinion that children should be presented with as many examples of potential careers as possible, including those I might have reservations about (mine wants to join the police) and particularly those to which they otherwise wouldn't have much exposure. Pique their interest, then as a parent, point out the downsides if you must.

By the time they're old enough to sign up they'll have worked out that being a Red Arrow isn't the norm for most service personnel. I'm hoping mine will work out the same re being a traffic cop - when he does, and still wants to be a police officer, then it won't be my decision to make anyway.

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 30/07/2014 13:40

Masa - I have been in exactly the same situation as you. My daughter was desperate to join the police force, did a two-year Public Services college course, did several meet and greet-type things at the local stations/traffic offices round here (thanks to a neighbour). We almost had to get a dog because she wanted to be a dog-handler.

THEN - it all fizzled out, and she's doing something completely different (as well as having considering a career in the armed forces).

At that age, they don't really know what they want to do - all options need to be presented, then discussed sensibly.

And I agree - at the end of the day, it is their choice, not our decision at all. We bring our children into the world to make their own choices - we can guide and advise, but it is ultimately their choice. We can't "forbid" anything as far as career choices go (as someone said earlier) we can only advise and worry Smile

MoreBeta · 31/07/2014 07:58

Evans - I forbid it because a significant number of boys from the school go into he local regiment and that only occurs because of CCF. I know full well the regiment use it as a way of gaining access to the school as a previous poster said.

As per the OP I do not want my sons being overtly influenced at such a young age into one career over anther. I want them to do Duke of Edinburgh, learn about self reliance, considering others, and all that good stuff but not via CCF.

I do not have a problem with armed forces as a career or the fact we need armed forces.

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 31/07/2014 09:54

I can absolutely understand those concerns, MoreBeta. Have you and other parents raised this with the school? The local regiment will only go into a school if they have been invited, so it is ultimately the responsibility of the school as to who comes in to give talks. Perhaps you should raise it with the Board of Governors, if you're unhappy with the situation.

cruikshank · 31/07/2014 18:56

Or perhaps she could be free to talk about her concerns on here, just as you are free to mither on about how killing people brings freedom.

cruikshank · 31/07/2014 18:58

Too many 'frees' but I think you get my point.

FlossyMoo · 31/07/2014 19:01

just as you are free to mither on about how killing people brings freedom

Very very flippant comment cruik. How dare you.

Your comments disgusted me before but that one takes the biscuit. You are ignorant.

I doubt you have ever had to kill anyone in any situation and until you have spoken to those in that situation keep your stupid comments to yourself. God you are disgusting.

mignonette · 31/07/2014 19:20

Eve

I still teach hospital corners and immaculate bedmaking to student nurses when I have them in tow (I only do enough shifts now to maintain my registration). They go Hmm until I explain about how creases in sheets can exacerbate and cause pressure sores when you are laying on them all day. And as you know, that regimented spic and span ward ethos comes from the association of nurses to the military and the development of discipline and striving for perfection.

cruikshank · 31/07/2014 19:35

Oh well, this is an interesting development to the discussion - that only killers are allowed to have an opinion on whether or not war is a good thing/schools allowing the armed forces to recruit children is a good thing - is there anything else that you would deem off-limits for non-killers?

cruikshank · 31/07/2014 19:36

How many people have you 'had to kill', FlossyMoo?

I'm just checking, to see if you should be taking part in this discussion.

Are you really James Bond in disguise? It's quite a good disguise, I have to say, if so.

mrz · 31/07/2014 20:02

Is there no one to play with on AIBU?

EveDallasRetd · 31/07/2014 21:15

Hi Mig long time no see Smile.

I'd been told that before by a QARANC, but wasn't sure if it was true or just a 'pride in the Corps' thing. Good to hear it from another respected source.

Are you bored Cruik? Trying to wind people up for fun? Not gonna work sweetie, you are too inconsequential.

Hey MoreBeta, I'd feel the same as you, and I'm already serving. I wouldn't be happy if my son was pushed towards a particular Regt - thankfully I have a DD. If she expresses a desire to serve I'd actually try to push her towards the RAF rather thank the Army and my own corps. I wouldn't stop her if that was what she wanted though, just give her some extra info so he makes an informed choice.

FlossyMoo · 31/07/2014 21:23

I have never had to kill anyone cruik but I do speak to and support those that have on a daily basis.

I see what it has done to them and how it has changed and affected them. The situations they were in were far removed from the everyday life we lead and I would not be as disrespectful as you to pass such a flippant comment.

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