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Primary education

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Armed Forces' proselytism in primary schools and the question of war

327 replies

kchornik · 27/07/2014 11:15

In the wake of the atrocities committed in Gaza, it is more urgent than ever that our children learn that war is a very serious matter and should be avoided by all means.

This week I was shocked to hear a Flight Lieutenant using the words ‘cool’, ‘fun’ and ‘exciting’ to describe his job at an ‘Inspirational Talk’ for Year 6-children and their parents, organised by a primary school, which my daughter attended. The LT is currently a member of the Royal Air Force and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other countries.

After showing a film depicting his spectacular pirouetting skills – sound-tracked with Hollywood-style, heroic music –, he recounted his career in the RAF, stressing how great his job was. He made no mention of his training or participation in armed conflicts – how odd, given that these are central remits of the armed forces! – and did not show any awareness or concerns about the humanitarian disasters caused by wars. Instead, he presented his job as a sporting adventure.

Worryingly, most children appeared positively impressed by his account. The youngsters’ questions all tallied with the partial and superficial information given to them. ‘What do you feel when you spin?’, asked one boy. In his answers, he even suggested that some could join the RAF. I wonder in what ways teachers believe these promotions might be ‘inspirational’.

Attending this talk made me realise the extent to which it is possible to manipulate and decontextualize issues of enormous implications, and that we have not sufficiently educated our children about the horrors of wars.

[identifying features removed by MNHQ]

OP posts:
cruikshank · 29/07/2014 20:06

War is not to be glorified in any way, shape or form

Good. So we agree that a member of the armed forces shouldn't be going into schools to talk about how 'cool' his job is.

Could have been a much shorter thread ...

FlossyMoo · 29/07/2014 20:11

But he wasn't glorifying war was he.

He was talking about his job as a Red Arrows pilot. Who flies his plane at national events NOT in wars.

mrz · 29/07/2014 20:19

He wasn't glorifying war in any way, shape or form he was talking about being a Red Arrow display pilot which is a "cool" job ...

cruikshank · 29/07/2014 20:23

The OP says that he suggested to the children that they could join the RAF, while talking about how cool his job was. Therefore, there was an implicit suggestion that joining the RAF was cool. The armed forces shouldn't be in schools. There are plenty of other jobs that disaffected youngsters could go into that don't involve killing people or being killed themselves. Pretty much any job will give stability, regularity and discipline to a young person who is struggling. It really gets on my balls when people use such spurious justification - as if joining the armed forces is somehow ok because they teach you how to make your bed etc. Pathetic.

EveDallasRetd · 29/07/2014 20:25

No, what's pathetic is someone that doesn't know or understand anything about the armed forces slagging it off as if they do.

MumTryingHerBest · 29/07/2014 20:26

cruikshank Good. So we agree that a member of the armed forces shouldn't be going into schools to talk about how 'cool' his job is. A soldiers job is not war it is something they may or may not encounter during the course of their job.

KenDoddsDadsDog · 29/07/2014 20:29

Did anyone watch the documentary on the red arrows? Just amazing.

mrz · 29/07/2014 20:30

These are ten and elevel year old children not disaffected youngsters. They have 7 more years of education ahead of them ... do you really think that the visitor in Y6 will make such a lasting impression they will rush out of school to join up? (if their grades are good enough)

FlossyMoo · 29/07/2014 20:32

Just the same way a police officer would suggest they can join the force.

Not everyone who joins the armed forces goes on to kills people and you are an idiot if you think that.
Jobs in the forces include cook/chef, medical, clerical, MP's (police),engineers, Queens guard, welfare officers, family liaisons, physical therapists, HGV drivers and so on.

You have absolutely know idea cruik and you are making yourself look more ridiculous with each post.

mrz · 29/07/2014 20:32

yes I saw it KenDoddsDadsDog very high level of skill required

MumTryingHerBest · 29/07/2014 20:35

cruikshank The OP says that he suggested to the children that they could join the RAF, while talking about how cool his job was. The OP also said they were present during the talk yet, and although obviously heavily offended by the content of the talk, did nothing to remove themselves, their child or even raise an objection that would prevent any further exposure to what they felt to be highly inappropriate. Interesting that you have made no comment on the actions of the parent, or rather lack thereof in this instance.

FlossyMoo · 29/07/2014 20:39

Tbh I get the impression the cruik is being purposefully goady. I will no longer engage with her/him or answer such moronic posts.

I am more than happy to carry on the discussion with everyone else though Grin

cruikshank · 29/07/2014 20:44

Fine by me, if your idea of debate is to call people morons and idiots. You sound great.

spanieleyes · 29/07/2014 20:46

I "met" the Red Arrows at a promotional tour in Victoria Station where they were signing autographs and handing out leaflets. They could recruit me anytime Blush

MumTryingHerBest · 29/07/2014 20:46

cruikshank Fine by me, if your idea of debate is to call people morons and idiots. You sound great. who called you a moron or an idiot?

FlossyMoo · 29/07/2014 20:51

Cruik's post is directed at me Mum Smile

MumTryingHerBest · 29/07/2014 20:53

FlossyMoo Cruik's post is directed at me Mum I know but you didn't call him a moron ;-)

FlossyMoo · 29/07/2014 20:55

I didn't call you a moron I said moronic posts. Look it up it has the definition of mindless behaviour. Very different from moron.

I also didn't call you an idiot I said that if you believe everyone who joins the forces goes on to kill people then that would make you an idiot. Which again is very different from calling you one. Unless of course you really do believe that every forces person kills?

FlossyMoo · 29/07/2014 20:56

I know Wink

cruikshank · 29/07/2014 20:58

Yes, there is a whole gulf of difference between the words 'moron' and 'moronic'. Btw you're doing really well with this 'not responding to cruikshank' thing. Excellent work.

FlossyMoo · 29/07/2014 21:09

I responded as you accused me of saying something I didn't. My 'not responding to you' is in regards to your posts about the armed forces.

You sound like a petulant child cruik and are being goady. Can you not finding anything productive to do this evening?

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 29/07/2014 21:14

@ Cruikshank Good. So we agree that a member of the armed forces shouldn't be going into schools to talk about how 'cool' his job is

Cruik - Please, please, please do not put words into my mouth. I absolutely have not agreed with you on anything on this thread so far, please do not try to intimate otherwise.

Are you really so devoid of your own views that you feel the need to twist the posts of others to suit yourself?

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 29/07/2014 21:16

My Dad served under the National Service system. He never fought against anyone, but learned his trade and absolutely loved his time in the armed forces.

Who mentioned above that all they do is teach you to make your bed?
Oh - it was you, Cruikshank. Surprise, surprise! Are you really only capable of throwing disingenuous insults?

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 29/07/2014 21:25

It really gets on my balls when people use such spurious justification - as if joining the armed forces is somehow ok because they teach you how to make your bed etc. Pathetic

If it gets on your balls, then you are clearly of the male persuasion. Pathetic PoV (yours) - We might agree on that, at least . . . Smile

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 29/07/2014 21:30

Actually, that might be a good idea for my teenage son - I'll get him to join up - he's absolutely useless at making his bed Grin