Armed Forces' proselytism in primary schools and the question of war

[kchornik]

In the wake of the atrocities committed in Gaza, it is more urgent than ever that our children learn that war is a very serious matter and should be avoided by all means.

This week I was shocked to hear a Flight Lieutenant using the words ‘cool’, ‘fun’ and ‘exciting’ to describe his job at an ‘Inspirational Talk’ for Year 6-children and their parents, organised by a primary school, which my daughter attended. The LT is currently a member of the Royal Air Force and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other countries.

After showing a film depicting his spectacular pirouetting skills – sound-tracked with Hollywood-style, heroic music –, he recounted his career in the RAF, stressing how great his job was. He made no mention of his training or participation in armed conflicts – how odd, given that these are central remits of the armed forces! – and did not show any awareness or concerns about the humanitarian disasters caused by wars. Instead, he presented his job as a sporting adventure.

Worryingly, most children appeared positively impressed by his account. The youngsters’ questions all tallied with the partial and superficial information given to them. ‘What do you feel when you spin?’, asked one boy. In his answers, he even suggested that some could join the RAF. I wonder in what ways teachers believe these promotions might be ‘inspirational’.

Attending this talk made me realise the extent to which it is possible to manipulate and decontextualize issues of enormous implications, and that we have not sufficiently educated our children about the horrors of wars.

[identifying features removed by MNHQ]

Flossy if your DS does join, it is hard as a parent. It is much easier being a military wife than a military mum! I cried when DS passed selection, especially as he did so well and I knew he would be off quickly. It was a mixture of pride and sadness, not sadness he was joining the Forces, sadness he was a grown-up and moving on with his life and my little boy was gone!

When he got the letter saying yes, he was definitely in he was so happy, he had a smile from ear to ear and sparkly eyes. We dropped him off on his first day and he wasn't a bit nervous, just eager to get on with it. When we all had to leave, lots of mums and girlfriends got in their cars, sunglasses on and the tears flowed!

Its the start of week 4 tomorrow. I won't lie and say he hasn't said he wants to leave, but it was only once and instead of saying 'ok' I had to remind him how much he wants this, how hard he has worked, and he can come home in a couple of weeks. Then the next day he is back to his usual enthusiastic self.

It is a worrying thing for a parent, but I can't not support him. He has been surrounded by the military all his life. He is a great lad, this is the path he has chosen so DH and I respect and support him in that.

Off topic but when anyone says pithy I always think of oranges.

Cruik Yes! How do you encourage a questioning mind whilst discouraging the questioning of you.

Fairy I have spoken to many a mum and their mixture of pride, sadness and fear is what make me want to weep.
I will support him in his decisions we have brought him up to believe in himself. But it doesn't stop me crying when I am alone.

I am proud of my son and maybe I'm a little more proud because of the choice he has made.
We don't have them so they can live our life. We have them so they can live their own.

Fairy

This thread has moved somewhat since I last posted but either I didn't understand cruikshanks response to my point or she didn't understand mine...

Still, I'm glad our military exists even if she doesn't. Yes there have been errors and tragedies caused by them, the politicians who direct them and the public who vote for politicians. I think Iraq is a mess, Afghanistan is hardly a recent mess - the Russians got on no better than us now or when we were there before them. I am pleased we still have the Falklands and all the other little islands, I am pleased we are able to be part of peace keeping missions round the world preventing massacres. I am very grateful that my grandfather and others meant we were not ruled by Nazis or suffered the fate of the 'Eastern Bloc'. It would be lovely if there was no war, no aggression, no guns but that is not the reality we live in. I just hope we can persuade politicians to use our military wisely and justly.

Haven't read the entire thread, but I agree with you, OP, 100%. I remember in my distant youth, thinking that being a soldier was all fun and heroism, and I was a not unintelligent teenager. There are a lot of deserters from the US army, who joined up as uninformed teenagers and found that war was torture and rape.

The thread was about a red arrows pilot being invited to talk at a school about his job - his job is cool, fun & exciting.

I cannot understand how apparently intelligent people seem unable to distinguish between the RAF and the Army. The RAF is a completely different entity and do completely different things - sometimes there is overlap, sometimes not. The overwhelming majority of people in the RAF will never fire a gun other than on a range, our business is getting aircraft in the sky for whatever reason - most people join for a trade and travel.

You could argue that the planes we fix are used to facilitate death, whether it be dropping a bomb or transporting troops to a conflict but by extension the tools we use allow this, the components we use allow this, the food we eat allows us to live which allows us to work, which allows us to keep the aircraft in the sky. The armed forces and their existence are indirectly and directly responsible for many jobs - if the RAF camp in Dave Cameron's constituency were to close it would mean the closure of 4 of the 5 primary schools in that area at least, along with countless other jobs.

The military is about more than soldiers killing people - Labour signed our country up for war, in peacetime the role is to train for war - but that doesn't mean that the members of the forces want war. I would fight to defend my country and our people in a heartbeat, but Iraq and Afghanistan I have never agreed with; when I joined up they weren't happening - but I have a family to support so I continue to do the job I signed up to do.

I always find it amazing that people can oppose the armed forces so vehemently, yet campaign like crazy to stop their local bases from closing - they, too seem to care more about keeping their jobs and income when it comes to the crunch.

Agree, Scarlett!

(And PS - thanks Eve for explaining about the "Bloody Sunday" debate further back)

We live in an area dominated by the RAF...We were shocked when ds2 who is 7 came home from school having listened to propaganda from RAF and watched a video...Not Happy

The RAF operate Dronesfrom round here

I attended the 'inspirational' talk myself, so my descriptions are from what I saw and heard first hand. During the event, I tried to ask questions several times but was not given the opportunity. Later I wrote to the Head Teacher asking the rationale for their choice of speaker, what they believe might be 'inspirational' about his life/career/the Armed Forces, why parents were not given advanced notice so those who objected could opt out. I have not received a reply yet. I suppose the HT is on holiday and may not reply until September. My concerns about primary and also secondary schools allowing children being indoctrinated by the Armed Forces remain.

Dooby - were you present at the talk, or did you ask for a transcript of the talk? If not, how do you know it was "propaganda"?

And have you raised it with the school?

Equally, kchornik, you are right to express your concerns with your school, and not the presenting guest speaker.

I do feel that in this case, from what you've described, the emphasis appears to be more on what a "cool" job the Red Arrows pilot has, which, actually, he does have.

If a Mum or Dad came into school extolling the virtues of their job, be it home-maker, police person, firefighter, refuse collector, fast-food joint worker, or whatever - there would be some adult objector somewhere in the audience (or frother at home).

It seems to me that as this talk was presented in Yr 6, the speaker felt that it would perhaps be inappropriate to talk about humanitarian disasters caused by wars. It is a very distressing subject. You also appear to forget that not all armed forced are involved in conflict - many of the NATO forces are deployed as peace-keeping forces, picking up the pieces of war-torn countries and helping to rebuild them, and re-establish broken communities (as Eve has brilliantly outlined upthread). Our military services are not hell-bent on war.

I would suggest that Yr 6 and younger would not be able to comprehend this notion, which is why, presumably the focus was on the aerobatic skills necessary to be a Red Arrow pilot.

I can't see the propaganda aspect you see.

I don't think anyone believes in glorifying war certainly not those who have served on the frontline but do you honestly think that a visit from a Red Arrows pilot is going to have primary school kids queuing to join up seven plus years down the line?

kchornik I attended the 'inspirational' talk myself, so my descriptions are from what I saw and heard first hand. So you actually allowed your DC to sit in on the talk. Surely, given how offended you were about the content of the talk, you should have excused yourself and your DC from the room. Or do you feel, as the parent, you do not have the right to do this?

Yes, I have raised the issue with the school and yes, I was present at the talk. As one of the participants in this forum said earlier, being in the Armed Forces is not a neutral act, even if the job is not a front line one. If schools do not want children to hear about the nasty aspects of wars, then they should not be bringing personnel from the Forces, and here I am raising the question of whether secondary schools should allow cadets on their premises. These programmes are also promoted as 'fun' activities. See the persuasive, propagandistic language: www.raf.mod.uk/aircadets/whoweare/atcccf.cfm
It is clear they are trying to entice kids with all the 'positives', giving them a very partial truth.

Referring to the OP specifically - of course any war should be avoided, wherever possible, and never embraced. However, going by the specific OP example of "In the wake of the atrocities committed in Gaza", I ask: what would you suggest as an alternative? The Palestinians are being bombed to oblivion, do you think they should sit back and take it? Or fight back? I know which I would do (not with relish, but out of necessity).

War is not to be glorified in any way, shape or form, but neither is the acceptance of a down-trodden nation.

What would be your alternative, kchornik, to that particular conflict?

kchornik - yes, I was present at the talk. so why did you not remove you DC from the talk given your heavy objection to the content? Surely, as a parent, in this instance, you are as much to blame for exposing your DC to something you feel was inappropriate.

Good point, Mum

So, as you were present , presumably you knew there was going to be a talk, or did you just wander into the school on the off=chance? What did you think was happening?

here I am raising the question of whether secondary schools should allow cadets on their premises

Sorry to appear pedantic here, but you said in your OP that this talk was given to Yr6 students. Secondary school starts at Yr7. And until now, there has been no mention of recruitment cadets - I was under the impression that it was a guest Red Arrows speaker regaling tales about his airborne aerobatic display experiences

(Or have I missed something along the way - possible, of course)! Please point me in the right direction, if so - Thx

My nephew was in the ATC. At that time in his life he was getting into trouble and having all sorts of problems. The ATC was a fantastic organization that really have him a purpose and direction. He had a great 4 years with them and now works as an accounts technician. Funnily enough he didn't take on any desire to kill innocent children.

Sorry to disappoint you kchornik I know you would have loved it if said they were evil but the truth is, and you're going to hate it, they didn't brainwash him with propagandistic language; they just helped him be a better citizen.

I couldn't recommend the ATC (air cadets) highly enough.

PS I'd love if it this guy came to my DS's school! Do you have any contact details?

AICM