Is it normal for 'challenging' children to receive rewards when they are just doing what is normal and expected behaviour of the rest of the class?

[SafeAsHouses]

Hope my question doesnt offend anyone....but it just seems to be happening alot recently in my sons class, and its tricky trying to explain to him why the kids that are disruptive and muck around in class (as per my DS, I know not everything kids say is strictly true!), seem to run out of school each week with stickers / rewards / child of the day etc, because they managed to do something that is expected of the rest of the class 100% of the time.

Surely there is a better, more fairer way to reward?

My friend does a class reward thing as well - balls in a jar. So hers children with SEN get their individual awards and if the class work well they get a class reward - so children are rewarded for behaving as expected - but to their own ability.

sorry little shits = ive had a terrible day and this thread hit a nerve. not normally little shits but I do get upset when my daughter comes home saying so and so hits/scratches/pulls/shouts and then gets a reward. none of these children that I am aware have learning disability. I obviously understand a child with additional needs would need additional help. my sister has down syndrome and it can be incredibly difficult to get her to engage. however the children like mine are left feeling like she isn't good enough? and to me that isnt good enough!

Where are are all these amazingly generous LA's who award ipods/days out etc to children because they have SEN?

They get a reward when they dont hit

Because the aim is to encourage them not to.

Because they clearly need some help to learn the rules either because they have SEN or they don't get support at home. Or both.

Its not even a "reward".

'none of these children that I am aware have learning disability'

Are you able to diagnose all conditions just by looking at a child? You should work for ATOS.

Thankyou jellymum1, you've just said what i've tried to say this entire thread.

So..you are both misunderstanding and being selfish then.

I come from the perspective of having one of each. I think other posters who I respect greatly have made the case for my DS, so I won't add to that discussion.

BUT I think the system is confused about what it's rewarding. For academic work, it is very easy to say we will reward exceptional effort or achievement for individual child - whether that means a 7 year old cracking their 2 times table, or cracking calculus. Easy to understand that what's being rewarded is what that child has put in to get there.

Similarly for kids like my DS who have specific difficulties that make mastering appropriate social behaviour very very hard, it's right that they should be rewarded for unusual achievements.

The confusi

The interesting thing for me is that the strong impression that the parents who have a problem with the rewards clearly blame the children receiving the rewards.
It's all 'little shits ' and 'challenging behaviour' posted with heavy scepticism.

Is the system not the responsibility of the school? Why are these parents following their child by blaming the recipient. Isn't that rather arse about face?

No fanjo, you're just mightily bitter about something! Hell, Jellymum1 has grown up with a downs syndrome sister, and you're still saying she's misunderstanding and selfish!!!

well I did tell my daughter that about the children needing to understand when they have been good and not hit/scratched/shouted! so I do get it after all! seems im not such a none understanding arse wipe after all! it still upsets me when my four year old daughter gets upset and does not think she does enough to be rewarded! because I'm her mum and guess what if she is upset I am upset. I just think they should be fairer and not basically ignore a child that is quieter. because what happens when she is older and thinks hang on a minute? if I act out I get attention...if I do as I'm told I get ignored. its the very opposite of the parenting we do at home? surely I am entitled to feel sad for my daughter feeling sad.

Im not bitter.

As I said my daughter is a meek and gentle soul.

I just get riled when people show such little compassion and understanding for the children and such ignorance of the purpose of the reward system.

Well instead of getting upset as well you shojld try to understand and teach her to be understanding.

My DS was the kid to be given stickers for getting 'easy' answers (they were nowhere near easy for him) or for simply listening like any other kid. He has additional needs (not SN) and had been told for a lot of his life that he was shit/stupid/dumb and although we were obviously boosting his confidence all the time, trying desperately to make up for that, it's going to overspill into school life.

Because the days when he wasn't being disruptive (and trust me, I did everything to help, saw the teacher, talked to him at home but you can't expect to sort out everything in a year, even in forever often) were good days for him. It was a desperate attempt at getting attention- and getting attention isn't a bad thing. He learnt that he would get attention when he did normal things or good things.

He's a teen now. He's not top of his class academically but he's popular, kind, friendly. He was given positive attention, a lot of confidence boosting and was taught at school and at home (and obviously by the FC previously) that it pays off to be good- and for us, good simply meant being like anyone else behaviour wise. His behavioural difficulties stemmed from the fact that previously (btw, this time was nothing to do with us) being well behaved had meant nothing- and I don't mean nothing in the sense of not getting a sticker.

My other two DC are and were well behaved in general, but both also have (emotional, which can cause behavioural, but in their case, not in school) difficulties. I've explained to them fairly easily- DS finds it hard to be quiet and listen or sit down, like you. So when he does listen or whatever, it means it's special in a good way. So when they do a special thing, which takes effort, whether it's something small like helping sharpen pencils or big like befriending a child who was sitting alone, they will get rewarded too. It's like explaining why one child will be praised for reading a shorter, easier book- different starting points, but the work put in to get them to an even lower level is the same, only in this case it's about behaviour, not academic subjects.

And where have I blamed the children? I really shouldnt get involved after a long crap day at work ..... im off..no offence was intended thats the thing about us mums...its our experience for our kids that counts

My 6yo understands that X in his class (diagnosed with ASD) finds some things much harder than him. He says to me "he's not really being naughty mummy, his brain just works a bit differently to mine"

He's clearly ahead of many adults in his level of understanding, judging by this thread.

Incidentally, ds has hearing issues which have affected his speech, reading and writing. He got an award for writing a whole page recently - I suppose that would be "unfair" too, as I'm sure there are plenty of children in his class who regularly write 2 or 3 or 4 pages.

Shoewhore thank god for people like you.

Oops I pressed post too soon.

The confusion is surely that while a child's level of academic achievement affects nobody but themselves, the ability to behave pro-socially has a huge impact on their peers. The child or adult who is able to consistently be kind, polite, considerate of others and try to do their best in what comes their way, generally makes the world go round. Most children can do that a lot of the time and they should, I think, be recognised when they do.

So - rewards for academic achievement which is exceptional for that child, rewards for behavioural achievements which are exceptional for that child, and also rewards for being that consistently kind and pro-social child who keeps it all on the rails. That would cover my DS and DD, who are at opposite ends of the spectrum - anyone left out?

And ref some posts, no ridiculous rewards for anybody. You could give DS all the iPods in California and it wouldn't fix his behavioural difficulties, sadly. Actually if you offer him rewards for behaviour he gets stressed out because he'd like them but he can't do what he needs to get them :( In his case he needs careful teaching of the social and emotional skills that most kids have instinctively built in, which we are getting him via a statement of SEN. In DDs case she has loads of intrinsic rewards and the odd gesture of recognition is all that's needed, although it is greatly enjoyed!

Thankyou swansinflight, a lovely, balanced post.

fgs, what do you all care?

They are trying to encourage poorly behaved children to behave better. The reward system when properly done has been shown to be very effective.

Just explain to your child that some people need more encouragement than others.

And be glad she isn't at a stage where she needs a sticker to sit in a chair.

Praise her for her maturity and patience instead of acting as if you are in the school yard too!

"so and so got a sticker for not hitting?! I'm so glad they are getting better behaved. Isn't wonderful you already know not to hit people? I'm so proud of you darling etc etc etc"

If it is so important you could do a reward at home for good marks in her copies or something.

me too shoewhore he sounds lovely

to Shoewhore.
This is how you deal with kids with ANY 'challenging behaviour' of any description. ASD aside, they might have come from a rubbish upbringing, they may never have known any better. School might be the first time they've had any discipline and they are really trying.

I could honestly weep at the ignorance of some people.
I feel like going and buying a packet of fucking stickers for those that feel so hard done by.

Try a day in the life of an ASD parent and see if you're moaning about stickers.
The worst bit is that they have to put up with their child's challenges and deal with attitudes like this.
DRY YOUR EYES!

It happens all the time. At the first school my son went to, his teacher told me he was a dream to teach. He is a laid back, placid child who enjoys school and just gets on with things. However, he NEVER ever received awards or certificates and it really knocked his confidence, so much so he actually asked me whether he needed to be naughty like xxxx to get a certificate!

ALL children need to be rewarded; it means a lot to them, they love a sticker or a certificate but if the system set up is not monitored consistently and fairly I think it just ends up achieving the complete opposite to what its set out to. Also, half the time the children have no idea what they need to do to achieve a certificate.

There is a middle road. My dd1 is on it, and I'm really glad her school run two award schemes for each child- rewarding achievement and behaviour. So today she got a record of behaviour stamp for helping tidy the art room after art. The school also encourage emotional intelligence, and empathy as they also have a lot of troubled kids (behaviour, sen, kids experiencing upheaval as nearest school to the refuge). They're great, and I can't knock them.

Ds attends a village school. He got a house point for writing neatly, and participating in his small handwriting group. Needs constant redirection back on task, and is praised for coping with group work.

Yes it's unfair. But your middle of the road child will be able to live independently, have a relationship, cope with the outside world. I'd not change ds, but at the times when a good day at school is where he's arsed abouts quietly instead of disrupting the entire class, I'd quite like to be in your shoes.