Anyone else against parent helpers listening to children read in the classroom?

[MumbleJumbles]

I'm feeling a little uncomfortable at the moment with who listens to my children read at school.

My daughter is one of the top girls in her class for reading, my son is in reception so only just started to read.

A parent who I am good friends with, volunteers as a parent helper. She usually does painting / baking / craft stuff in the classroom. But on 2 occasions recently, has come out of school and told me she's listened to my children read and then made a comment on their reading skills (not derogatory, just a general "oh I listened to 'L' read today, coming along nicely").

I don't really feel comfortable with this, and I'm not sure what benefit there is in my kids being listened to by somebody elses parent (whose kids are in the same classes as mine)?

Am I being unreasonable / irrational?

I have read the whole thread. But I think its inappropriate for a helper to :
a) comment to the parent of said child.
b) help out in a class that contains helpers own child.

I agree with the posters who have said helpers should only help out in classes that their children are not in. In my opinion if its not about spying and genuinely about helping the children, parents wouldn't mind which class they were in. However, in our school when they changed the policy to 'not in your own childs class' mysteriously most of the helpers disappeared!! It amazes me how many parents are very bothered about other childrens reading levels and discuss it freely, not enough things to do with their time if you ask me

I helped in both ds2 and ds3's classes, at different times, and I honestly don't think it was a problem - but it didn't occur to me to use it as an opportunity to snoop at how my boys were doing, or to compare their progress with their classmates' progress.

All it takes is some common sense and good behaviour on the part of the helping parent.

I think it's fine to help out in your own children's class. We only have 4 classes in the whole school, so would be a bit of a logistical nightmare organising it so you're not in your own child's class. I have a friend who has one child in each of the classes- should she not be allowed to volunteer?

I think the issue is this other mum who is ultra competitive and giving you inappropriate feedback about your child. It's just not her place to do this. However, without any major breach of confidentiality, you can't do much a bout it. Let her have her little competitive game and don't engage with it. Your dd sounds as though she's doing brilliantly well and that's all you need to focus on. There will always be these mothers, try and rise above her nonsense.

"All it takes is some common sense and good behaviour on the part of the helping parent."
Well yes, in an ideal world. But I'm afraid that's not always the case.

Very true, sadly clam - I knew I was being a tad unrealistic!

To be honest you do not need to be a parent volunteer in your childs class to have a good guess where a child is academically!

Ouch! I've volunteered at school, and specifically asked not to be in my own children's classrooms.

I have however told the parents of children that I know how well they are doing when it has been the case. I was raised to never keep a compliment to myself! It would never occur to me to not say something nice, if it was true.

You have given me cause for thought.

Parent helpers are an asset if they behave appropriately, The same applies to parents who work as TA's. I know one such person and she makes Max Clifford look discreet. It's wrong in every way but I am sure she will get herself into trouble soon enough.

I read to kids in my lunch break at work. Would you be against that or just your friends doing it?

I think there should be simple guidelines for volunteers in school, nothing too heavy, but a few points may help.

Such as,
Whilst in the classroom, you will see the day to day goings on of the class. Please don't comment on individual childrens behaviour or work outside of the classroom, as this can cause misunderstandings or upset to parents.
OR
We ask everyone in the classroom, teachers, TAs and volunteers not to discuss individual children with others in the community.

It is because some parent volunteers can't resist spreading a bit of gossip/ 'sharing' with the parents about behaviour or academic progress they have seen, that many schools don't allow people to volunteer in their own child's class. They often see half the picture or get the wrong end of the stick and no end of misunderstandings and wasting of school time can follow.
Only the teacher should be 'reporting' on individual children.

The problem I mention is intensified when parents volunteer in their own child's class. They know more of the other parents and can create more issues because of that. Volunteering in other classes does not remove the problem totally but reduces it.

Of course, volunteers do loads of good work. Many schools are very grateful to them and reliant on them. The downsides are usually outweighed by the positives. I do think schools should give a few simple guidelines though, so volunteers themselves know the score and ambiguity is removed.

Even those guidelines won't stop a certain type of parent talking inappropriately.

No, you're right, guidelines won't stop all parents doing it. That is a risk of having volunteers. Schools need to allow volunteers in for a short time scale initially and then review if it is working out.
However, some volunteers say inappropriate things unwittingly. A few guidelines would help many realise what isn't appropriate. Some people on this thread have said they are reconsidering what theybsayboutside the classroom inflight of the thread. They have never meant to cause problems, but are seeing perhaps they have said things which could be problematic.

"Schools need to allow volunteers in for a short time scale initially and then review if it is working out."

But how would you ever know? The OP's school here doesn't know yet (unless she tells them) that this woman has been indiscreet.
And it's quite a faff for a HT to have to effectively discipline a parent-helper who's been speaking out of turn - you're up against all sorts of "Prove it" conversations. Heads have got enough to do as it is.

What tends to happen is that a number of Heads are now doing a blanket "thanks but no thanks" to generic "helping in class," but specifically asking known and trusted parents in for specific things.

There are bloody guidelines! I had to sit through a teacher saying just this to our firms 15 volunteers!

Your school needs to buck it's blooming ideas up.

Who was that aimed at, Minnie?

Firstly, I have to confess that I haven't read the whole thread. I have worked as a TA for a few years and we do have parent helpers who give up their time to come and listen to children read. For some children who don't read at home to their own parents, this extra reading is ideal. However, I was recently a bit taken aback when a parent at my own children's school who had been volunteering for a couple of weeks stopped me in the village shop to offer me advice on techniques I should use at home with my DS's reading, and not to worry because she had written it all down his reading record!

Lots of schools do have confidentiality agreements though - the first on google is this which looks perfectly sensible e.g. it says:

Confidentiality
?? Volunteers in school are bound by a code of confidentiality
?? Any concerns that Volunteers have about the children they work with and come into contact with should be voiced with the Class Teacher and NOT with the parents of the child or persons outside school
?? Comments regarding children’s behaviour or learning can be highly sensitive, and if taken out of context, can cause distress to the parents of a child if they hear about such issues through a third party rather than directly from the school.

Which is hopefully a statement of the obvious to anyone helping in the school but asking people to read and sign it would hopefully give pause for thought (and recourse for the Head) for some of the people described on here.

Gini,having seen the real confidentiality agreement you posted, I'm pretty pleased with the ones I made up on the spot a few posts back. Yes, more schools should have them. Having to sign also gives a sense of its importance. Won't rule inappropriate talk out altogether but will go a good way to helping with this issue.

Clam, I think you are right that the idea of limited time voluntary agreements that I suggested is problematic and probably not workable. Schools often don't know who is speaking in appropriately. To deal with this, I have also known schools which don't allow people to volunteer, but ask a few trusted people. These are often those who have had children in the school for many years. I have noticed they are also usually the ones invited to be parent helpers on trips, rather than there being a general request for helpers. Same kind of reasons I guess, as well as the fact they have had some kind of CRB check done.

I think parent helpers are brilliant, and I really appreciate their efforts. It's great if kids get additional help, and why look a gifthorse in the mouth?

I also really appreciate the rule in our school that they can't help out in a year their own child is in - not just class. So no chance they'll hear anything confidential, and no chance of competitive parenting.

As a teacher, I would want to know if a parent helper is being indiscreet. I'd either do a refresh on confidentiality for all helpers, or that parent would find themselves redirected to covering books in the library.

If she is your friend why don't you have a subtle word with her?!
I help with reading in school though not in my children's classes. It is a small school and I have never even seen my DS when in reading. My DD sees me as she comes in from play, says hello and moves on. I did this the year before last and didn't do it last year and my children asked me to do it again. I think it shows them that school and school work is a very important thing and certainly doesn't impact on their independence at school. I help out because it's actually quite rewarding to see the children improve. I also work from home part-time. People moaning about parent helpers should remember that if we didn't do it, there would be no or less school trips, inter-school sports events etc. Schools instead would have to take TAs out of other classes to have the ratios of adults to teachers.

I've helped out in school, often with reading, often in my dd's class. I've never started a conversation about reading with a child with his/ her parents. But I have been asked by several parents how their children are progressing. And in that situation, I do answer, it would be weird I think to do anything else. I make sure I do NOT compare kids, and I would prefer not to have the conversation at all. But to say I'm bound by confidentiality not to say anything would perhaps worry the parent that something actually is wrong with their DC's reading.

Agree with Milk - if I'm asked directly outside school how a child is doing by their parents, I will tell them - but if there is something negative, I won't tell them that! Just keep it very bland: he's doing fine, read to me today.' Not my place to do anything else!

We got new guidelines handed out to all parent helpers this week - telling us we're not allowed to touch children. If they hug us, we can reciprocate so as not to upset them, but don't touch children. Sigh.

That's another thread, though!