Anyone else against parent helpers listening to children read in the classroom?

[MumbleJumbles]

I'm feeling a little uncomfortable at the moment with who listens to my children read at school.

My daughter is one of the top girls in her class for reading, my son is in reception so only just started to read.

A parent who I am good friends with, volunteers as a parent helper. She usually does painting / baking / craft stuff in the classroom. But on 2 occasions recently, has come out of school and told me she's listened to my children read and then made a comment on their reading skills (not derogatory, just a general "oh I listened to 'L' read today, coming along nicely").

I don't really feel comfortable with this, and I'm not sure what benefit there is in my kids being listened to by somebody elses parent (whose kids are in the same classes as mine)?

Am I being unreasonable / irrational?

higgle yes I remember doing this as a child - although we did it within our own classes - top readers listened to bottom readers. I think it benefited all of us.

It's all good practice Mumble.
And it isn't rocket science really, to hear a child read, provided it's done in a positive and encouraging way.
I've worked as a teacher, and a TA, and know how difficult it is to give every child enough reading practice in school.

I also remember being in a class of 40 in reception when I was 5 (they were just opening another school to cope with rising numbers in early 70s)
I think my teacher heard me read about twice, and she had no adult support with us all. She coped, remarkably well, by singing songs with us all morning whilst she played the piano ! IIRC (memory possibly not 100% accurate from 40 years ago!)

I reckon she's suffering from status insecurity - being a SAHM is looked down on a bit these days by a lot of people, so she is trying to create some kind of status for herself beyond that. Helping quietly may make you feel good about yourself and be genuinely helpful to others, but it doesn't enhance your public status, so she's trying to be a bit noisy about her role, because it makes her feel a bit more like a somebody than a nobody. If she's your friend, can't you have a word with her about how commenting in public about your children makes you feel uncomfortable and you feel it is inappropriate, rather than puncture her bubble entirely by going straight to the teacher?

Hi Mumble I read in my DC classes and honestly it is laden with politics!

I would never discuss anyone's child - or anyone else's - with a parent, but I have had parents come up to me and ask me who is "behind" in their DC's class, and who do I read with and what level are they on! I told one mum I probably wasn't supposed to talk about so couldn't tell her anything and she was really put out - she wanted the gossip on who was "falling behind".

Does it matter if some of those doing it are SAHMs who want some structure to their day? - as long as the children progress with the extra help I think it's wonderful. And I recommend it to anyone who can fit it in, it is very rewarding.

MumbleJumbles:

Some parent helpers really get into doing this and feel that they're helping with learning and take pleasure/ pride in that.

Personally I got more sense out of a parent helper burbling to me about my DD1 (who couldn't read in Year 2) and what she was working on with her than I ever did from a teacher. I was incredibly grateful that this woman, who was volunteering her time, was willing to sit with my DD for about 20 minutes and patiently work with her on improving her sounding out skills.

She gave me support, ideas and encouragement and also said that DD1 was improving (which gave me hope). All of which was way more than the non-communicative teacher would do, even though I asked her if there was anything we should be doing at home at every parent/ teacher meeting.

So yes I'm grateful for parent volunteers - for people donating their time to listen to children one on one and give DCs that crucial learning support when they're struggling a bit/ or even when they're doing so well that the teacher rarely spends time with them (as was the case with DD2 who picked up reading very quickly, most likely from being around all the extra time we were supporting DD1 - & this woman read with her as well & said much the same as your 'friend' was saying - which reassured me after the disastrous start with reading DD1 had).

Also - at our school at least - many volunteer parents often end up entering teaching later (after their kids have grown) - so this is partly about finding out they enjoy working with children/ teaching.

HTH

Having said all that I also agree with rabbitstew's last sentence.

I reckon she's suffering from status insecurity - being a SAHM is looked down on a bit these days by a lot of people.

Oh, why would that be, then?

rabbitstew, I think you're completely right now you've spelt it out to me. This friend has recently started dropping into conversation her a-level results 20-odd years ago, her degree etc, which is all a bit odd as we've all moved on from that! The majority of mums in the playground are working in some sort of capacity, so perhaps she's feeling slightly 'below-par' in that respect. Gosh I feel a bit of a b*tch now, she's perhaps feeling crap about that & I'm banging on about her commenting on my childrens reading

Having said that, it still annoyed me

IHeartKingThistle:

Just wanted to say if I was the parent you were talking to (and I have had a volunteer talk to me about both DDs) - I'd be ever so grateful.

I needed to hear DD1 was improving and I needed to hear there were no issues with DD2. In both cases the school was loath to say anything one way or the other or to provide advice/ suggestions on what we should be doing at home.

The parent volunteer did - and frankly it made all the difference where my DDs were concerned.

We're all only human - we have our pride, we want to be appreciated, we want to be liked. I'm sure, whatever the motives, she doesn't want to be mean or unkind in any way, and I'm sure she is helpful in the classroom, or the school would have found some way of limiting her presence.

MrsRuffdiamond - I don't know why. Maybe because so many people are obsessed with power, money and status? After all, as a SAHM, you are a non-taxpayer and have the capacity to volunteer your time for free, which if you actually do have a lot of skills to offer is of great value.

Op - your issue it seems is with the individual reading with your child in her school. The issue needs to be dealt with by you with the individual and if necessary the school. Fear of offending the Mum who volunteers her time may mean you bite your tongue instead of expressing your concerns. But that doesn't mean all parent helpers must be banned - I am sure you see that.

We all come across overly nosey/ competitive/ judgemental parents, some volunteer at school - I have chosen too ignore them as much as possible, not react and not 'feed the beast', when people have entered into conversations about how my children are doing/ how their children are doing. It matters not a jot to me what they think and if the children are benefiting from some additional reading sessions then honestly where is the harm?

If caught in a 'how's little Jonny doing in comparison to little Jenny/ I hear little Billy had a tantrum in class' etc., conversation I stick to comments along the lines of "That's nice dear" then change the subject to something uncontroversial like religion or politics

I help out sometimes usually on special events, trips out - last time we were building dens in the local woods. I mentioned to the parents of the children in my group, how much fun the kids had and how they loved collecting the wood, getting muddy, and making up a game about needing to take shelter from an approaching tornado! I apologised to one parent for how muddy her daughter got (red coat became brown coat) - hopefully that would not be out of order. If the school did not have willing parents volunteering these extra activities would not happen. So I can cope with the odd overbearing gossip for the sake of a good educational experience.

The obvious thing to do is, next time she makes a comment about others, is say something along the lines of 'that sounds like confidential info, you shouldn't be telling me'. If you are uncomfortable about comments about your own child, something similar - I'm not sure you should be telling me about things you've heard in the classroom. If it still carries on, say if you keep hearing this confidential info you'll have to inform the school. And if it still carries on, do so.

How cold you make your tone depends in how you feel on the day, how private the info is, etc!

It does sound like she is getting her social status out of this, I know being an sahm can get on top of you but that is no excuse for disclosing private info.

I'm assuming by 'you' you meant 'one' and not me in particular, rabbit, as I work P/T (albeit only for 2 mornings, for the minimum wage, so no status there), am a carer for my mum (no volunteering capacity), have 3 ds and absolutely no skills to offer!

One other thing op you could ask what the school policy on parent helpers is - I am a school governor (one of those low status SAHM with time on their hands ). Last year I helped re-write the 'helping at school' leaflet that we hand out to helpers - clarifying responsibilities and expectations. It makes clear confidentiality expectations and parent helpers should not be privy to information about individual children on anything but the most superficial level. Check your school is making its helpers aware of their responsibilities on this issue.

I have done both reading and Maths with my DD's class and wouldn't dream of discussing a child's progress with their parent. That's the teacher's job! I do obviously discuss the children with the teacher and I assume she uses what I say to inform her own assessments. I expect other parents know that I go into school, though, as their children probably tell them 'I did Maths with Jane's mum' or whatever, just like my daughter comes home and tells me she read with Anna's dad or Helen's mum.

But all of the benefits to the children, school and volunteers in question would still take place if the person were volunteering in a class other than the one in which their children are taught. No-one (I think) is suggesting no volunteers, just that it can also be a problem and that that can be reduced if the school is aware and takes steps to avoid volunteering becoming a route to gossip. Maybe some people would't volunteer if they weren't getting the inside track on their child's class but those are exactly the people who shouldn't volunteer.

The woman I mentioned upthread is definitely insecure about being a SAHM with no pre-school children. That's very unfortunate but when her insecurity means that she feels able to speculate openly that children in the class (including mine) have undiagnosed disabilities then my sympathy ends. The fact that she is 'semi-official' gives her some sort of credibility and has caused significant problems for people as it is then taken as the school's concern that 'Y has ADHD' etc.

I've just started volunteering and was just lead into a room and told to listen to them read as we would at home. No instructions or confidentiality advice at all. Eek.
I'm exactly the kind of blabber mouth who would say, 'oh I heard x read today, he was great' in the playground, so I'm really glad I read this and will bring it up at the next communication mtg at school....

I always help out in my child's class as they would be upset if I didn't - I have no interest in other childrens progress apart from generally wanting children to do well etc.

If an individual is a problem which it sounds like the parent in your situation is, Gini - then she needs to be dealt with - the school needs to ensure the privacy/ well being of the children she is in contact with is protected. if she is acting against school policy regardless of her motivations she needs to stop helping. But to say no parent should help out in their own childs class is OTT and would discourage parents who want to help. Living in a community means people make judgements on you and your children regardless of whether they happen to spend a couple of hours in your childs class - we have to deal with that and sometimes it is unpleasant.

No I'm not for one minute suggesting that I don't think there should be ANY parent volunteers in school - our school is a large (2-class) intake primary with a forest school status, cooking facilities etc, and lots of parent volunteers have enabled those things to come about and continue to happen.

I think I did initially have an issue with what benefit my children are getting from sitting with another parent to read in the classroom...when they read to their own parents nearly every night of the week. But this thread has highlighted to me that any reading practice is good reading practice, regardless of whether its to a teacher / TA / Parent / the class bunny rabbit.

I just feel uncomfortable with a parent doing academic activities with children from their own childs class, when they have no qualifications to do so (ok, like someone said up thread, its not rocket science at yr3 level) and then giving me their own parent opinion on my children in the playground.

I strongly suspect that this mother, if offered voluntary hours to help out in classes that her own children weren't in, would turn it down. She was slightly exasperated one day that she had to do painting with another class, and not that of her own child. Surely if she wants to volunteer her time, it doesn't matter whose class she helps in?

Thing is when your child sees you in school they want you to be in their class (well my two do anyway) when I helped with a walk to the post office for the foundation classes - My daughter wasn't put with me and all the way on our walk I could hear her questioning her teacher "why am I not walking with mummy!?" etc. - must have been very trying for her teacher but it was completely avoidable...

I think you've got a good point, and I think you should bring it up at a meeting.
It will benefit everyone if helpers know the expectations on them:
eg. they are there to help the whole school not just their own kid
eg. not to give away info etc.

Gini99 - surely said person would just gossip about children not in her child's class if she volunteered elsewhere? In my experience, that sort of person feels free to comment on any child, not just children in their child's class.

MrsRuffdiamond - yes, I did mean "one," . I just didn't want to use a term which these days is considered pretentious! I'm not sure how you can equate looking after your mother and 3 children and doing a part time job with having no skills, though.

I'm a parent helper and I often listen to children read or test them on their tricky words now that I'm assigned to a reception class.

The rules are strict in our school. I can not assist in my own child's class. I must not discuss any child's progress with anyone. We are made to read and sign a confidentiality document.

The process for becoming a helper at my school is almost as hard as applying for a paid job.They took references from previous employers and I have to commit to one morning or afternoon session a week and be available to help on class trips on an ad hoc basis.

But why would it discourage people who want to help Bigmouth?

It is true that people will always speculate. In a community there are always family issues that are known. E.g. Jane's mum has told me about their messy divorce, DS says Jane cries in class, I can draw conclusions from that, though those conclusions would just be speculation. If, however, I help in the class a couple of times a week and then come out telling people that Jane is showing behavioural problems because of the divorce that's more damaging. It might still be speculation but it now has the imprint of official authority and concern. That's damaging for Jane's privacy, her relationships and for the school's reputation. It is qualitatively different from playground speculation without that blurring of whether something is just a parent's nosiness or an 'official' problem.

If the children benefit from reading with their peers (which they do) and reading to themselves - then they can also benefit from reading with a parent without teaching qualifications. The parent may well have no qualifications apart from being an adult who (hopefully!) can read but the child will benefit from a bit of undivided attention some encouraging words...

I have no issues with my children having a parent of another child in their class reading with them - if they are gossiping afterwards then it is stupid of the parent but not my problem - if they are trying to diagnose SEN in other children then anyone listening to them should shut them down and in some cases inform the school.