'we said thanks to God today mummy!' Really??

[unexpectediteminbaggingarea]

Apparently a 'special lady' came and told my son and his class that God gave them a special gift so they should all say thank you to him. And they did.

Does this kind of shit go on everywhere? It's not a church school. I am an athiest. My son, aged 4, is now apparently not. He says that, thinking about it, he now thinks God is real and the reason you can't see him is because he 'lives in a different country, maybe London'.

I'm actually quite pissed off about it (not the London bit, that was funny), but if it's what happens everywhere or is some kind of statutory thing I suppose I'll have to suck it up. If it's not I may write to the head.

Although I do think more time on geography and less time on God might be better for DS .

In my primary school the local presbyterian minister came every friday to take assembly. We sang hymns. There were Jehovah Witnesses who were permanently not in assembly/productions etc. As a result they were seen as "different" the rest of the time too.

Christianity was taught as gospel in RE. No other religions were ever discussed. We had compulsary services in the church.

That was indoctrination. And yes it was 15 years ago. But my cousins are now at that school and nothing has changed. It was a state school.

ninah

Its true though that schools generally follow Christianity and some assemblies are based on Christian belief. RE lessons are about learning about other religions, what they believe/ celebrate etc.

I am always astounded (and amused) that some posters on mumsnet regard one person talking about something as 'indoctrination'. Clearly they have a rather muddled concept of what 'indoctrination' is.

I am similarly astounded (and not amused this time) at the hypocrisy and hatred which prompts certain posters to vent spleen about equality and respect for everyone's beliefs and yet in the same breath they describe a belief in God as 'shit'.

Yes, hypocrisy and hatred on an astounding scale there.

I'd be spitting. Children that age believe what teachers tell them. I don't want to have to explain to my 4 yr old that actually I disagree with his teacher. A healthy lesson to learn later that adults don't always agree, but I think it might be tricky at 4 to explain when teacher is to be taken literally and when not.

(And not to go into creationism, but the Big Bang is a scientific theory not a fact, and I hope it's taught as such in science lessons. Intelligent Design is a belief not a scientific theory, so appropriate to be taught about in RE. I'm happy for my children to attend both RE and science lessons, but not religious assemblies where belief is presented as fact. )

The fact that it was a "special lady" implies that the school is outsourcing their statutory faith component to an outsider, and when your DD is a bit older she may realise that they're putting it in inverted commas, which is perhaps preferable to a teacher presenting it. The problem is that the person they get in may not be a mainstream Christian.

Well I wasnt reffering to "one lady" as indoctrination.

And I never called a belief in God shit.

I had to address this earlier this term (can't remember which Fred I mentioned it on at the time as I didn't start it), although from the opposite side: I am Christian, and chose a non-denominational school because I think religion has no place in schools, or at least certainly not in primary school.

Our school seems to take its obligation fairly lightly, with "thinking about" rather than "praying". The head was very helpful when I approached her, although her main solution was that I could of course remove DS from assembly (etc) which I don't think is a solution.

I am happy for DS to be taught to be generally thankful for the world he lives in and respectful of others, so the "broadly Christian" idea I find inoffensive in general. But drilling down into denominational specifics such as confession, Sin with a capital S, etc, I do not consider a 4yo capable of appreciating.

I am always amazed- and amused - at the straw men Christians put up in these debates. And their absolute refusal to address the central issue.

OP, the main religion of this country is Christianity. Our schools reflect this. I am not sure why you have a problem - just tell your DS that some people believe in God and some don't and then tell him you don't.

Thank you donnie I completely agree. I don't understand why atheists are allowed to talk openly about their beliefs and opinions, but when Christians do this it is seen as some kind of 'indoctrination'.

Most teachers are very careful when teaching RE as our own beliefs should never come into play in this situation. When teaching them about Christianity (which is only for half a term in the year) I am careful to say 'Christians believe...' rather than 'I/we believe...'

Before you write to the Head, might be worth asking the teacher him/herself what the context of this visit was. Get the full picture first.

At ds's school they had some people come to talk to them about God which I don't actually mind about.

What I was upset about was they told all the children that they never have to worry about being lost because god will find them. They were a class of 4/5 year olds and ds didn't understand that they didn't mean lost in the way that he understands the word. He actually thought he could get lost and god would take him home. It took a lot of explaining from us to try and get him to understand.

Under the 1984 education act, schools are obliged to have acts of collective worship of a broadly Christian nature.

That is as far as it goes. There is no obligationto teach Christianity as fact.

Withdraw them from RE lessons, otherwise it is the way it is.

"Thank you donnie I completely agree. I don't understand why atheists are allowed to talk openly about their beliefs and opinions, but when Christians do this it is seen as some kind of 'indoctrination'."

Atheists aren't allowed to do that at school assembly.

Atheists dont come into sunday school and teach the children the big bang theory as fact.

Schools should be secular. Education and religious beliefs are separate.

As I said. I just don't understand why it's so important that the children of atheists are exposed to christianity but not the other round. What qre Christians so afraid of?

Hhhmmm I have to say there's teaching about religions and people's beliefs as part of RE... And there is making a child give thanks to god.
I personally would not want my child to give thanks to god, because in my opinion god does not exist. At 4 years old I would quite clearly explain to my child that god does not exist but some people chose to believe he does. And as his parent I am happy to enforce my lack of belief on my child (much in the same way Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc... often enforce their beliefs on their children). If when he's older he decides to become a theist well fine, I'd disagree with him, but it's his choice.

'This kind of shit'?

Lovely.

seeker you might be interested but Atheism and Humanism are included in many agreed syllabi
old news and not the best source but -
www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3501156/Primary-school-children-to-be-taught-atheism-in-Blackburn.html

I would imagine from the OPs description the school is looking at the festival of Harvest and has held a Harvest festival as part of RE lessons ... they could well be doing similar for Diwali next month and Hanukkah ...rather than it being an act of collective worship.

But 51% of assemblies have to be broadly Christian in nature. And there is nothing to stop teachers actually getting children to pray.

I just can't understand why everyone doesn't think it's outrageous that you have to be at least a nominal Christian to fully participate in a state tax payer funded education.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8743072/Most-schools-shunning-law-on-Christian-assemblies.html