'we said thanks to God today mummy!' Really??

[unexpectediteminbaggingarea]

Apparently a 'special lady' came and told my son and his class that God gave them a special gift so they should all say thank you to him. And they did.

Does this kind of shit go on everywhere? It's not a church school. I am an athiest. My son, aged 4, is now apparently not. He says that, thinking about it, he now thinks God is real and the reason you can't see him is because he 'lives in a different country, maybe London'.

I'm actually quite pissed off about it (not the London bit, that was funny), but if it's what happens everywhere or is some kind of statutory thing I suppose I'll have to suck it up. If it's not I may write to the head.

Although I do think more time on geography and less time on God might be better for DS .

Grimma, I agree with you that it should cover those areas. It doesn't though. At my school, we just did the same bible stories (pretty much all New Testament) that match whichever part of the year we were in. I don't know how many times I drew a sodding picture of Jesus rolling away the stone. (Well, actually I do, because it was once a year.) I would buy the whole 'culturally important' argument if RE teaching was about wide-ranging culturally significant stories, but it just doesn't seem to be. And I don't see how saying prayers in assembly has anything to do with culture or history or anything else.

I lOVE the term 'God-Botherer' but I wouldn't say it to a god-botherer's face unless they were a dear god-botherer friend who got my sense of humour.

I only used the phrase because I'm cross at the influence that religion has on publicly funded education. Nominally non-faith schools across the country having an obligation to include Xtian worship as a daily part of the curriculum vs a few sharp words on a talkboard? Meh. The status quo is definitely weighted in favour of the believers.

I don't think I'd have worried about being called a God-botherer when I was one - some people are more thickskinned than others I suppose. However, since these terms tend never to help debate (derailing discussion into sniping about 'respect') its generally better to avoid them. TBH its a bit of an odd term...I am not in the least bit worried about people who bother god...its people-botherers (in particular those who bother children) who I might sometimes get cross with.

I call myself a God botherer. :) I do bother with God, so...

Sounds as though everyone - bothered, unbothered, whatever - agrees that teaching 'some people believe.....xyz' is the way to go.

Anyone actually disagree?

(Wallison, I don't remember anyone saying it didn't matter - as long as its put in 'some people' format?)

I would take issue with anyone telling my children that Santa, the Tooth Fairy, any sort of politics, or certain manners and values were 'facts'. Trust me, religion isn't the issue - its the 'black-and-white', only one way to think brigade that scare me.

Hurrah for the sensible Headmaster further down the thread

"agrees that teaching 'some people believe.....xyz'"

not me, I think it just shouldn't be taught in schools at all, or at least not in primary school.

I can see arguments for that, Fanjo. OTOH, I think primary aged kids can benefit from a bit of understanding about their friends and communities' customs and religions - only on a very simple level, but learning about Eid and Passover and Easter and other festivals, for example, has helped kids in the dds' classes feel included and understood. And helped others to understand and include.

I do think understanding and knowing a bit about different religions, as well as non-religious cultural customs, is important before the age of 11.

I'm all for atheism and agnosticism (is that a word?!) being included in the mix of 'knowing about'.

Perhaps knowing about is the key - rather than practising.

I agree with Fanjo

Teach/share "myths and legends", so that children are culturally literate can recognise Adam and Eve, Moses, Jesus, Hanuman, Thor, Venus and whoever in a painting or literary allusion.

Teach a bit of "what people do" - some people go to church, temple etc... eat Kosher, wear a turban etc... celebrate Divali or Eid etc..

i think "what people believe" about supernatural matters is far too complex to be taught in primary school. Christians range from biblical literalists to people who are vaguely deist but like the cultural aspects. The same with other religions (although people may not have the freedom to say so). Any kind of "Christians believe X" statement is likely to be simplistic to the point of meaninglessness.

Perhaps knowing about is the key - rather than practising.

Exactly.

Grimma for Education Minister!

Is that a compliment or (given some of the incumbents) a slur?

A plea...

Though as I said, given some of the incumbents...

Well, most of them.

I remember a postcard which said, 'Kenneth Baker wants to test children at seven, nine, eleven and then again before the bell goes.' still makes me laugh to this day.

was it kenneth or am i thinking of a newsreader there?

[hgrin] @'fishface Gove'.

Nice to see that we are keeping up the mature, reasoned perspective, Suffolk!

I don't know why successive Gov'ts have appointed their creepiest people to the role. It just seems wrong.

Oh dear, sorry to hear that Suffolk, I hope you feel much better soon.

Take care, get some rest. x

Assemblies in all state schools are legally required to be 'collective acts of worship with a Christian emphasis'.

Children can be withdrawn from them. I note, however, that at my dds school, none of the muslim pupils are withdrawn from assemblies.

Not absolutely accurate.

The assemblies must be "broadly Christian in nature"

BUT (and not a lot of people know this) technically only 51% of them need to be.

catinhat - possibly because Christianity, Islam and Judaism all follow the same basic principles?

Muslim children will be getting their own religious instruction at home and so perhaps attending assemblies and being exposed to Christianity is not really seen as a bad thing, unless you think people who follow Islam see Christianity as a danger/bad-influence on their children?

The non-religious mostly just want to be left alone to be without religion, and particularly they want their children to have the same freedom.