DS1 (5) excluded from school two days in a row

[pinkandsparklytoo]

DS has been in year 1 for just over 2 weeks. Yesterday he was excluded for hitting the teacher. Apparently she had asked him to pack up the train track and he refused. He went on some sort of chair-throwing rampage and hit her in the back a few times tehn kicked her. They called his Recepton teacher in to deal with him and phoned me. He was out of there by 10:20.
Today I missed got a voice mail from teh schol. When I rang them back I found out that they thought he had bitten someone this morning but they couldn't see any marks and let him carry on with the day. However he had then later bitten someone and left a big mark, the headteacher said it was because the other boy wasn't paying attention to the teacher. She also said that my DS had told her that DS2 bites him and that's where he got it from. DS2 is 1 and hasn't bitten him for months. Later on DS told me that they had been playing dinosaurs and he was T. Rex and the other boy was T. Rex prey so he bit him to eat him up.
This week has not gone well for him in general. Tuesday I got told not to pack him fruit strings in his lunch box any more as he refused to eat the other food in it when I did. This is besides him having had them twice already this month and it not being a problem. Wednesday I had a word with the teacher to warn her that some boys had said they were going to cut his hair off (it is shoulder length) and she told me that I need to tie it up or cut some off as it is "dangerous". This was due to it becoming tangled in her big beaded necklace when she bent over him. And then the exclusions of the last two days. I don't really know what to do with him. Has anyone got any advice?

We now only use IEPs for SA+ pupils. Anyone on SA is covered by the provision map, which is not individualised in the same way that an IEP is, but nonetheless details what how those children are being supported over and above normal classroom differentiation.

What does "SA+" mean to OP?

www.eriding.net/resources/inclusion/provision_mapping/061123_jstuart_sen_provmap_primary_intro.pdf
The big difference is Provision mapping isn't just for pupils with SEN or AEN but for all pupils.
We have meetings for parents of pupils at SA+ and with statements
Our EPs don't recommend funding regardless of paperwork

pink, I think you need to get them to ask for outside assessment or do this via you gp.

FWIW, I didn't think you were making excuses when you talked about each incident, simply giving it some context (and looking at it from his perspective).

Not sure if this has been asked already but has the school taken any other steps prior to exclusions? The way I'm reading it, it is coming across that they just don't do anything until there's an incident which he promptly gets excluded for - is that correct?

What does their behaviour policy imply should happen (from what I understand all schools should have one)

What is your councils policy on exclusion? My local council states it is "a last resort when all other avenues have been exhausted"

Are you aware that you can appeal an exclusion?

Feel free to pm if you want to chat to someone, we had issues with ds1 and subsequent aspergers diagnosis. I work v.closely with his school and there are times when you have to remind them of their own policies!

They said it's automatic exclusion if a student assaults a staff member. I'm not sure how that works when two were other children. When I pick him up from school he tells me about the other boys play fighting. They haven't gone through any other procedures, that they have informed me of anyway. I am thinking of going in Monday to see if I can talk to anyone about what they are actually doing at the school.

Brilliant post from turniphead

Other boys play fighting is not relevant to your sons behaviour, Pink. I know the internet is not ideal to get complex stories like your sons across, but every incident as described by you has been followed by a description of someone else's behaviour - to me, a complete stranger reading this, it reads like you are looking at every reason not to closely examine your reactions to this and find an external factor for your DS' behaviour. It is the internet, and that is just my opinion, but that is how it's appearing to me. The focus here at the moment should be your son, not the teacher, the other boys, etc. If there is an underlying reason for this behaviour then that needs urgent looking at, perhaps the exclusion record will speed up any clinical referral. If this is his fourth exclusion and you are only now seeking a meeting with the school then that relationship needs to be a lot closer, for your son's sake.

yes they have gone through other procedures. They had an Educational Psychologist assess your son, they implemented the EP's advice ...it's all part of the process. You really need to sit down with the head/SENCO/class teacher to discuss how best you can all work together for your son's sake.

Re: SA+ that was an aside to the teachers on here really. But it stands for School Action Plus, which means outside agencies have been involved, as opposed to SA, which is 'just' action taken by the school to support the pupil from its own resources.

I can't get my hear round how a 5 year old could be excluded on 4 separate occasions ...sorry not helpful

Don't cut his hair - ignore the teachers silly advice here

Does he have outbursts at home and how do you deal with it? Are you and your DH calm? Is there any hitting? Do you smack DS if he is naughty?

Have you looked up anger management strategies for children on the net?

Have you asked if you can sit in on the class?
You might spot triggers they don't notice, it might make you see your son in a different light....i'd want to see what's going on.

You could go in disguise.

I spy on my lo's outside play at pre school...very interesting.

Three things stand out on this thread to me.

1. There must have been many, many, other instances before he was excluded because schools just do not exclude children (especially this young) except as a last resort. What else has gone on leading up to this?

2. Lots of posters have asked how you deal with his behaviour at home, when he gets angry or frustrated (as all children do at times) and you have not addressed this, other than the mention of him going to him room to calm down when he was excluded. Do you use any other sanctions? What about when he misbehaves outside of the home environment?

3. There is a distinct possibility that there is a SN reason for his behaviour. As a parent, you can take him to the gp and ask for him to be referred for assessment, but you will need to be completely open about what he has done. It's not just up to the school to get him assessed, you can be much more proactive yourself.

I haven;t read all of this PAS but cut the bloody hair off.. show who's boss.

Sorry for taking so long to get back to the thread. There were a lot of posts and it has been a struggle to answer people. Sorry if I missed you out.
DS does not run rampage at home doing whatever he likes. If that were true he would just be playing trains, watching train dvd's or playing on the CBeebies website all day. DH and I have set him boundaries and he does take himself off to calm down if he gets worked up about something or we take him away from the situation. Smacking or unacceptable behaviour results in the loss of a privilege such as Playstation time, losing his icecream, or having the trains put away. We don't smack him when he doesn't behave as we would want. We might occasionally shout.

Sleep has always been a bit of an issue but is starting to calm down a bit now. He didn't sleep through every night until we moved to our current home when he was 3. He used to wake up at a ridiculis time at night and stay awake for ages, or wake up early in the day to start the day. Now he tends to stay up later instead. It can be difficult to get him to switch off and go to sleep some nights.

When he was in reception they used a picture timetable for the day to help him know what was coming up. They gave him plenty of notice when activities were to be changed. They had picture cards on a chain to help.

I did have a meeting last year with the teacher about him, where we compared methods and they incorporated what we do into their routine at school. Things such as giving him to the count of 5 to stop what he is doing. I did however think that with him starting a new year that the new teacher would have been told about him and then have a meeting with us to discuss how they were going to manage him this year. In nursery and reception they prepared a plan for him of what their targets were for the term , and things they were going to do to try to achieve it. I think they did these for all the children but can't be sure. There have been no indepth chats with the current teacher or headteacher. The school have never suggested that he may have any sn for which he would need a diagnosis.

As I have said the teacher has not spoken to me about either incident requiring exclusion this term. I don't know if they took any other steps to control behaviour. As far as I knew he was settling in well until I was told about him not wanting to eat his lunch on Tuesday and then excluded on Thursday and Friday. Their behaviour plan says that sanctions are kept to a minimum with a fresh start every day. With regard to exclusions it states that "The Head teacher has the right to temporarily or permanently exclude any pupil whose poor behaviour is serious and/or persistent. For the child at risk of exclusion, a Pastoral Support Plan will be implemented to help the child. This will initially be in place for six weeks and will be regularly monitored by a recognised service."

Sitting in on the class would be an eye-opener but I don't think it would be allowed. I'm fairly certain it would change how he behaved.

I have not been making excuses for his behaviour, purely trying to explain the situation as it happened, from what I have been told.

Thanks for your tip alcofrolic - would it be the same for a girl?

He 'went on a chair throwing rampage, hit her in the back a few times, then kicked her' and people think it is an over-reaction to send him home after that? OP can't understand on a human level that the teacher is reluctant to speak to her? I know there is professionalism but that sounds to me quite a shocking and upsetting thing for a teacher new to a school to have to deal with and I would expect her to enlist the support of the head and SENCO in dealing with it.If my child did this I would be feeling very ashamed and be full of apologies to the teacher

I have been assaulted in my job before now and it was humiliating as well as painful. I did not hold the person in question responsible as they were ill, I got help and made an appropriate management plan but I certainly didn't feel as positive about that person from then on. I put a smile on and carried on my job but I am a human being and I expect this teacher is too.

I really don't agree that the school are failing in their response.
When two of these four incidents occurred in reception last year they got an ed psych assessment and instituted a behaviour plan that was successful.
The subsequent two incidents have involved serious aggression to a staff member and another pupil 'bitten someone and left a big mark'. They have occurred over the space of the last 2 days so it is early days for the school to get an appropriate response in place. They do have a responsibility to other pupils and to staff to keep everyone safe in the meantime.

Your son does not need a diagnosis to get a support plan
If nursery were already using things with some success then I would suggest carrying these things forward

If I'm being honest the sleep and
hair issues alongside the success of a pictorial timetable do sound awfully familiar so I would definitely query him being on the autism spectrum. It is not unusual for that diagnosis to come between the age of 7-10/11

Either way communication with the school is key. You need to identify key targets, doesn't have to be anything big but something manageable. He needs to have the goal clearly explained and also how he can achieve this.

An example of ways school can help:

My ds1 is visual. He is also impulsive. He will shout in class unless there is a poster which clearly states " hands up zone". If the poster is there he does it, if they take it down he shouts out again. He cannot process it any other way.

There are plenty of strategies available to you and the school

I have monthly review meetings and the teacher calls me when needed. We also have an autism support worker. I had to fight bloody hard for the support but it is there. Ds1 is now fully integrated in the class and school is much easier all round.

It is hugely important that you take a more proactive role. You need to either nip this in the bud now (if its simply a case of being naughty which isn't really my gut instinct) or get support in place

Is thing about trains - how obsessive is he? Is he known to talk at great lengths on one subject?

Hugely stereotyping tbh and am honestly not attempting a long range diagnosis that I am not qualified to make but just curious.

I would apologise to the teacher if I had seen her since the event! I agree with him being excluded for that but I think the teacher should be the one to talk to me, or one of the ta's that were actually there to tell me the full story instead of the abbreviated second hand one from someone that wasn't there! I can't really question the ht about it as she doesn't know the full details.The school should have him marked down as someone that needs extra help with having seen the ep last year and she should be aware of what they have done with him so far. The boy he bit was one of his good friends and biting is not in my sons character to do, as I said he hasn't done it since he was a baby.