DS1 (5) excluded from school two days in a row

[pinkandsparklytoo]

DS has been in year 1 for just over 2 weeks. Yesterday he was excluded for hitting the teacher. Apparently she had asked him to pack up the train track and he refused. He went on some sort of chair-throwing rampage and hit her in the back a few times tehn kicked her. They called his Recepton teacher in to deal with him and phoned me. He was out of there by 10:20.
Today I missed got a voice mail from teh schol. When I rang them back I found out that they thought he had bitten someone this morning but they couldn't see any marks and let him carry on with the day. However he had then later bitten someone and left a big mark, the headteacher said it was because the other boy wasn't paying attention to the teacher. She also said that my DS had told her that DS2 bites him and that's where he got it from. DS2 is 1 and hasn't bitten him for months. Later on DS told me that they had been playing dinosaurs and he was T. Rex and the other boy was T. Rex prey so he bit him to eat him up.
This week has not gone well for him in general. Tuesday I got told not to pack him fruit strings in his lunch box any more as he refused to eat the other food in it when I did. This is besides him having had them twice already this month and it not being a problem. Wednesday I had a word with the teacher to warn her that some boys had said they were going to cut his hair off (it is shoulder length) and she told me that I need to tie it up or cut some off as it is "dangerous". This was due to it becoming tangled in her big beaded necklace when she bent over him. And then the exclusions of the last two days. I don't really know what to do with him. Has anyone got any advice?

We have our reasons for waiting. We have been in this situation before - we were extremely quick (in fact too quick) to go for a private assessment and have our son labelled when he was 15 months old - we spent thousands of pounds on various therapies and treatment programmes, only to get a second and third and fourth opinion that there was no basis for that label. The advantage of having gone through something like this before is - that label or no label, we now know professionals in the field who deal with early intervention, behaviour management, autism / adhd the lot who can help us and whom we can rely on for advice. So even if he had a label - the support he needs will be the same, which we are already working on providing him - we have someone coming in from North America next month to advise us and we will only then take things forward. We are really on-the-ball type of parents, so definitely not sticking our heads in sand when we say we want to wait for one month ! My DS is only in nursery and all children are normally meant to do only half school days anyway (he will start reception september 2013) - so a month here or there will not substantially change things for him.

I wanted to share our situation with the op nonetheless as her descriptions really ring a bell with us - though ds has never been violent or hit any adults (so far - but you can never say never) - and that she should consider support outside of school to understand the underlying reasons for her ds's problems at school.

central, can I suggest that you see another viewpoint? The education system (if you are in the UK?) is all geared around a September start. If your DS has issues that will require significant input, and you find that he would benefit from extra support in the classroom, then it is quite possible that he will require a Statement of Special Educational Needs. The Statutory Assessment takes 6 months, and is informed by professionals working with the child. It is more difficult to convince the Local Authority to take your child's needs seriously if you haven't had the input of professionals thus far. If they say no to Statutory Assessment, then you need to appeal, which takes further time.

Even if you start the process now, you will be cutting it fine to get a workable Statement in place (should your DS require it) by the start of term in September. If your DS does need it, and you don't have it in place, you are relying on the goodwill of the school to supply appropriate support.

I really urge you to consider that.

As context, my DD started preschool with no prior concerns at 2½ years old (I had some, but was dismissed). Within 8 weeks of starting, I was drawn aside, and asked to have her observed. 2 weeks later, I had a letter stating that 1:1 support was needed (and supplied) and 2 weeks after that she started falling over for no reason, ended up at hospital, and she started seeing her peadiatrician.

Despite her having some quite significant learning difficulties with global developmental delay, it took a further 18 months to get her a Statement of Educational Need. I was, in the end, able to secure her a special school place by telling the Education officer that I wasn't prepared to wait any longer to start the Statutory Assessment process and that I would write the letter myself.

In the end, DD1's statement was finalised, naming the special school, 2 months before the Education officer wanted to even start the process. If I had waited until then, the special school places would have all been gone.

I appreciate your input - we understand it can take time to get a statement. As I mentioned, we took our son for a multitude of assessments when he was 15 months, when we were told otherwise by a number of professionals and the school. This time around we would like the school to push forward for an assessment. They have already told us that if they do not observe any changes after half-term they will go down the assessment route and therefore we would like to work in conjunction with the school rather than unilaterally make that decision. So I would prefer to ring up the pvt paed (we already know who we would want to speak to) in few weeks time after half-term than now - I really do believe that we need to work with the school on this - as they do have his best interests in mind and are clearly taking a pro-active approach. He is at a selective pre-prep at the moment and if we or they feel that they will no longer be able to support him, then clearly we will need to work towards a SEN and move him to a different school - which may take several years as you suggest. (we have friends who have gone through this process). However, pre-empting and pushing for a label will only affect his time at his current school and affect our relationship with the school. The school is very pro-active and they will support him as best as they can over the next two days until half-term !

I'm a little saddened that you see it as pushing for a label, rather than identifying your DS's educational needs. I can only conclude that it is your prior experience which gives you that view.

For what it's worth, my DD is in a special school which is well over subscribed and had no meaningful diagnosis or label. She's there because it meets her needs educationally, not because she has a label (a big proportion of her peers also have no label).

I'm interested to read (on various threads on MN) about people pushing for Statements. Does provision vary radically from LA to LA then, as in our County it is well-nigh impossible to get Statements for anyone. We have 450 children in our school, and some seriously needy children, and yet we only have two statements, both of which took until Year 5 to secure, after massive effort and pressure.

Clam provision is highly variable. Additionally, a lot of it comes down to parents knowing enough about the system to be their own advocate and be 'the wheel that squeaks'.

However, in my County (Hampshire) I found that once I made it clear that I would be applying for a Statement, and that I knew enough about the process that I didn't need the Area Inclusion Officer to ask for me, the actual process (for me) was painless.

In fact, every professional wrote that DD would need a 'high-level of support at a Mainstream setting', yet the Statementing Officer, when she reviewed all the information together, decided that the far more expensive special school was the best setting for DD. So I didn't have a fight at all.

Other people in Hampshire will be given 'Inclusion Partnership Agreements' which are meant to be a 'Statement in content, but avoids the long, drawn out, legal process'. I personally think they are a cop-out, because many children who need a Statement haven't had the input from all the professionals who may need to see them, and IPAs only draw on information from people who have seen them. They are also not legally binding on the LA to provide the support stated.

There are some LAs which are notorious for denying statements with blanket criteria (which is illegal) such as 'ability must be in the bottom 1%'. Well, my DD is actually quite bright in areas - she has a 'spiky profile'. She is still in much need of the special school place she has, which can't be gained without a Statement.

Some LAs will push people to tribunal as a way of weeding out the less resilient parents. Hertfordshire is notorious for that. They also use expensive lawyers to find tenuous grounds for denying provision. Or, they insist that the school that is suitable for the child is in fact only as good as the most local school, so that they can deny the parents travel costs, which means that the parents can't afford to get their child to the school.

I could go on

Ohhhh Justa makes a good point.

There is a subtle shift in the burden of evidence once a child reaches school age:

Prior to school entry, the SEN Code of Practice states that LAs should accept 'one overarching report on the difficulties the child faces' when deciding whether to assess and whether a Statement is required.

Once a child enters school, the burden is on the school to show that:

-The needs are beyond the school's own resources
-The school has done all that it can to support the child
-The child is making unsatisfactory progress
-The child is unlikely to make satisfactory progress without the input from the LA.

Now, that sounds reasonable. Except to do that, the school needs data. To get the data, the school must wait to assess progress. Then they must put in school action/school action plus measures. Then they must assess whether that has made any difference to progress. Then they must put in further provision, perhaps outside help. Then assess whether that makes any difference.

Then by then, a whole school year may have passed. The child may have a new teacher. So, they must wait for the child to settle, to ensure that it isn't a transistion issue. Then they must assess progress....

You see how many years can pass.

DD1 was first brought to the attention of the LA in September 2009 (far too late, because the Area Inclusion Officer had known about her since September 2008), when I applied for a Statutory Assessment. She was fully Statemented, with a Special School place confirmed, in January 2010 (just 20 weeks, which is 6 weeks sooner than the process should take, but there were no ammendments needed) and started Special School in September 2010.

The progress DD1 has made is phenomenal. Today, she was able to join in with a Mainstream dance club for a whole 10 minutes! Sounds trivial, but when she was at preschool, she couldn't even sit still for circle time. Today, she was watching her sister at dance club, and started to try and copy the moves (again, at preschool, she couldn't copy moves at all). The dance teacher noticed, and said she could join in. She concentrated will, and attempted to join in. It was amazing.

Well, that explains it lougle. I'm in Herts!!

Oh, well then StarlightMcKenzie's the one you want to discuss it with. What she doesn't know about Herts' ways, is probably not worth knowing

Excluded for hitting a peer !! Strange isnt it ?!?!?!?!?!

nannyof3 the exclusion itself isn't 'strange'. What is unhelpful, is if the exclusion is not part of a measured plan. Because if this child is not going to get a structured plan to help him, then in effect they are saying that he is unhelpable, which is an awful place for a 4 year old to be.

No child behaves like this for no reason. If indeed you are a nanny, then I would hope you'd realise that.

Just thought I would add my experience for the op

I am in the final stages (finally!) of teacher training and have undertaken quite a long placement in a special school where approx 50% of the children's needs relate to ASD (many other children have other behavioural/emotional issues) and I have observed a lot of the behaviour patterns you talk about - so I am glad that the possibility that your dc has a specific SEN is being investigated.

However, and I really must emphasise this- a diagnosis of a condition will not actually do anything for your son- they cannot let some of his behaviour go because he has 'x' condition, because the teacher and other kids have a right not to be hurt at work/school. At the special school I did my placement in they were far more rigid with sanctions and rewards systems than in mainstream- as it is even more necessary for children with these issues to learn that their actions have consequences. Your dc will have to live in the world as it is, not a world free of anything that triggers undesirable behaviour, so he has to adapt to the world, not the world to him or he will end up in prison for hurting someone- he will not be little forever.

If he has specific SEN it will be harder for him that others but the main person who will lose out if he does not learn to modify his behaviour is HIM. I say this only because I see many parents (both through my training, on mn and at my dc's school) who feel that if they get a diagnosis all will be OK. In itself a diagnosis does not solve anything.

I also have to say ignore comments about bad parenting/ naughty child they are not helpful or relevant.

But take on board that the school have to take serious steps to modify his behaviour and you really need to get on board with this wholeheartedly- it is not just for the benefit of the others in the class but for HIS benefit too. He will not have a happy life if, having been excluded this many times by yr1, he does not get his behaviour under control.

sorry, have just re-read my really waffley post- what I mean is that getting a diagnosis will not IN ITSELF improve the situation. The sorts of steps the school are following will still need to be followed.

will now give up trying to post after 2 glasses of wine

AnotherTeacherMum, that is absolutely correct. I hope your time in Special School will help you immensely, whether you end up in Mainstream schools or Special.

I help in a class at my daughter's special school (not her class - she doesn't cope well if she knows I'm in school, so we have to be a bit cloak and dagger about it). The class I help in has children with very severe SN. The expectations of those children are high. They do not get away with any behaviour that is unacceptable, no matter what their needs.

However, returning to the OP, until the needs are known, and strategies identified, then all that is happening is punishing a child for behaviour which is a response to an (as yet unidentified) stressor. The difference with the children I see, is that their needs are being met, and any behaviours are analysed to establish the cause, then action plans put in place.

Lougle you are absolutely right about needs being met- hopefully op can work with her school to help with this.