So here we are- KS2 SATS Week...

[ampere]

Feeling more nervous than DS2!

He's 'borderline', particularly in Literacy. He'll be so happy if he gets a 4 (as will I!) so off he went just now with me offering my last minute bon mots ('Read carefully! Most of the answers are in the text! If it doesn't make sense, you've not read it properly' etc).

Indigo, setting is putting children into ability groups for each subject individually, (which is the system I prefer.)

Streaming is putting children into the same ability group for all subjects, often high, middle and low, or A, B and C. There may be some setting within the stream, but it's hard to move between streams.

So my very good mathematician but mediocre writer would have ended up in stream B or C and could never have reached his potential in maths.

Streaming is one of those things at people generally think is fantastic if their child is going to be in the top stream. A bit like grammar schools!

Exactly, seeker.

School DS is going to sets for maths, mixed ability in Year 7 for all other subjects.

Very happy with that.

It should be separate sets for each subject anything else can cause trouble.

My DSIS would easily have got O'level English, but never got to try because her maths put her in the CSE stream.

DD1 got stuck in set 3 for science because it was set with maths.

Given she is now top of Set 2 maths this was a cock up, which to be fair Maths would have sorted out by Xmas. Science decided to keep her for all of Y7 basically as a TA for the bottom table

Personal experience is that streaming is also work exceedingly well for the children that are low ability. In my current school (ofsted satisfactory) I feel that the very low ability are actually much less overlooked than my previous outstanding school and are actually making more progress. Like I say it is mainly the ones on the boundaries which are potentially disadvantaged in a streaming based system. It really does depend on the criteria used for streaming and the flexibility in the future as to how effective it is.

I think it is fair point that different systems will suit different children...and that as you point out can depend on where they are in the cohort.

Streaming works well for those who are consistently at the extreme ends of the ability scale for all subjects, and who then develop along the expected trajectory from those start points.

It doesn't work for

• Those in the middle.
• Those who have different abilities in different subjects.
• Those whose trajectory of educational development varies with time (or could do so, had the streaming not been in place, as it entrenches initial assessment through artificially constraining the education those children are given)
• Those who had a specific barrier to learning - e.g. in the early stages of learning English - which varies with time

I would argue that since there are a LOT more children for whom it doesn't work, the fact that it might be good for the few shouldn't outweigh the disadvantages for the many.

Setting, on a subject by subject basis and with opportunity for free movement between sets, benefits a much greater number of children AS LONG AS that setting is done on the basis of real work done in secondary school, not on e.g. heavily coached SATs.

Exactly. My ds is going to a school in September where they set from day one based on SATS and, unless he has done something silly in the last week, he will do very well out of it.

Because he is overall at the high end of the ability range, he is quite consistently capable, he has not special needs, no behavioural issues, no anxieties and concerns- he will just go into the "grammar" stream and get on with things. If his achievement was at all "spiky" or complex, if he had any additional needs...then it wouldn't work out as well at ll.

Sorry- stream from day one, not set.

I've got a whole bunch of spiky, complex, late achieving boys! Those DC who are actually pretty good at everything will still be in top sets for everything in a school that sets for each subject individually. So streaming or setting doesn't give them much of an advantage either.

My school was probably quite representative - two populations (divided equally for timetabling purposes) and then setted for Maths, Mfl, English, Science and Humantities into 4 groups. Some people comment that it is damaging for self-esteem to be in a lower set, however, personally, whilst being top set for all academic subjects but rubbish at PE, Art, Textiles etc I would have LOVED to have been set for those subjects, too. I found it terrible for my self-esteem to be in a mixed ability PE group and would have loved a bottom set for those subjects in which I was hopeless. Wonder if any school anywhere sets for those kinds of subjects?

The school DD1 is going to sets for each subject, doesn't stream at all - there are 8 sets in all (it is a big school). Movement between sets happens at the end of each term if needed so there is flexibility for late bloomers (and so there should be).

I've already told DD that she might not be in the top set for maths (she is predicted a 5a but there are 5 or 6 L6s in her school and there are half a dozen other feeder schools. She doesn't care, as long as she gets away from 'the horrible boys who keep kicking my chair because she won't let them copy her work'. Which she will. She's very likely to be in the top set for English and Science, along with her gang of friends. That's all I want - for her to be in a group of children who are interested in working hard and learning.

By the sound of it we are really lucky with our childrens school. DD1 is in year 6 and expected to do very well in her SATS (the school usually gets v. good results) but there has been absolutely no pressure. Certainly no SATS related homework. They have done a couple of past papers to practice how to answer, but thats about it.
DD1 was most excited about the hot chocolate and bananas on offer before each exam!
I just don't understand the cramming mentality - if its not consolidated learning surely they will forget it all before September anyway. - or maybe the schools who do that really are more interested in how the results make them look rather than what is actually best for the children :(

threeofthebest,

For schools under the Ofsted / LEA cosh there is often HUGE pressure to achieve certain results - which then makes those schools behave in a way they would not choose to wrt SATs etc. Schools and teachers, in general, want to do what is best for the children BUT the punitive nature of a regime in which schools live or die by their last set of data can mean that they behave dysfunctional ways....

Floor targets ( ie the level below which OFSTED become REALLY interested in the school are currently 60% and set to rise to 65% next year. I have 35 % of my children who are severe SEN ( statemented) or EAL ( who have been in England since year 4 so still count but came speaking no English and , in 2 cases no previous schooling in their home country!) and because of my small cohort, every child counts as 6%. Two further children are SA+ both for cognitive reasons. That means only one of these children can fail to get level 4 or we are below floor targets ( and heaven help me if one is absent or has a bad day!).

oh the madness joy of government targets

To fail floor target don't you have to have less than 60% Level 4 + less than some number (the national average?) make less then 2 levels progress?

• don't they only get really interested if you repeatedly fail the floor target?

www.usethekey.org.uk/school-evaluation-and-improvement/school-improvement-data/analysing-data-for-school-improvement/key-stage-2-floor-targets#section-3

A school is underperforming if fewer than 60% of students achieve level 4+ in English and maths and pupils make below average progress in English and maths.

So you may be ok because of the amount of progress your children have made since Y2.

But my EAL children weren't here in KS1 so there's nothing to measure progress against! Not sure what they do then, they do make HUGE progress as do most of our SEN children ( they're our highest cohort for progress!) but my tracker just says N/A .

Not had time to scroll the 845 messages that sum up the imbalance in SATS tests across schools but please realise that no secondary school worth its salt pays any heed to the marks as the Government itself pays for intensive courses for borderline level 4 kids, teachers/invigilators prompt like crazy and when you complain its the school that gets protected not the child. Best to enrich your child's existance yourself in year 6 and allow for a realistic expectation . The year 7 'dip' in results is not about changing schools it is about certain children having recieved so much help to get through and so little logical development that they need time to learn again. It's high time that primary school teachers stopped listening to Heads and started listening to theit consciences.

Goodtiknow, HTs have no choice as long as Ofsted down grade decent schools purely on number of L5s.

Rural primaries have massively falling rolls, a poor Ofsted means parents go elsewhere.

This is a MC, two car owning area, parents can and do vote with their wheels.

I have a million big questions but will split them up into smaller chunks on separate threads... Just arrived (July) back into the UK with a ten year old DD that has been educated in South Africa at an international school (IB programme). So I am very unfamiliar with the 'new' state system (ie.since I was at school here some thirty years ago!). 10yr DD classed as gifted in SA and accelerated - missed Y3, going from Y2 to Y4. Youngest in class, which caused a few probs socially, but academically fine.
Now in UK. Put her into rural state primary into Y5 - ie. back half a year (academic years are different and run Jan - Dec in SA) . She is top of her class in Y5 and according to her teacher has no competition in the small Y6 (8 pupils). However, her teacher also says DD has knowledge gaps which will need filling over a two year (Y5/6) period in order for her to confidently move into senior school. Now, potentially we are being offered a weekly boarding place at Hockerill which we are (for obvious reasons) keen to take up. But it's starting in Sept 2013. This means she will miss out Y6 and SATS. Her teacher says he can't 'spare the time' to extend her individually as he has 28 children to teach although he does say if she stays for Y6 she likely to acheive high 5s or 6s in the SATs. So, my question(s) are: if you were me, would you risk losing the place offered at Hockerill and keep your child in school through Y6 and SATS stress, or would you put her let her miss (yet another) year (she would go back to being the youngest in Y7). We are of course happy to look at tutoring to fill gaps, and do extra maths for fun anyway. But currently I don't see her engaging at school without any peer competition or extension. She's just coasting and while she can get away with it she won't put in extra effort to show what she's capable of (Catch 22)... All thoughts welcomed...
Incidentally, I've asked her what she wants and she says 'I don't mind, I know you'll make the right choice for me..." So, no pressure then.

OGM I would start a new thread as many mumsnetters won't read a post relating to last years SATs.
it is interesting that Hockererill will take her a year early, that is unusual in UK state schools. If she has gaps in her knowledge that her current teacher has already identified then maybe a tutor is the best route this year and then start at secondary school in September 2013.
If you do choose to let her do year 6 and SATs if she is gifted and has been on an accelerated programme surely she probably wouldn't find them stressful.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

So she'd be boarding at age 10 ?

I think the academic side is not as relevant as her ability to cope with boarding at this age. Some children really do cope well, they don't suffer home-sickness so acutely and thrive, but for some children it would be very difficult to be a year younger, not know anyone and be away from home at the on-set of the roller coaster of puberty.
Academically she will do well whereever she goes as she wont loose being bright.