So here we are- KS2 SATS Week...

[ampere]

Feeling more nervous than DS2!

He's 'borderline', particularly in Literacy. He'll be so happy if he gets a 4 (as will I!) so off he went just now with me offering my last minute bon mots ('Read carefully! Most of the answers are in the text! If it doesn't make sense, you've not read it properly' etc).

Bye !

I don't see much evidence of 'so so concerned'. All our children are experiencing the same things this week and we are sharing those experiences and our own. Nothing too difficult in that, I would have thought.

Dovebird, I'll state my reasons again and expand, although it may be rather boring for other people on the thread. Perhaps you can then tell me why I shouldn't be bothered.

DD will be going to a secondary school where the children are set in Maths, English and Science based on KS2 SATs. They do also sit CATs, but these are only used for setting in French, Geography etc. It is very difficult to move sets once you are in. In addition to this, the school has two streams, and it is not possible to move between streams ever once you have been put in the stream. Parents are challenging the streaming, and hopefully it will change, but I can't know it will change. Streaming, which divides children into two populations, one higher and one lower for every single subject is based solely on attainment in maths. Setting is within stream but by subject. So if my DD is in the B stream but does really well in English, she can never get higher than set 4 in English, because sets 1, 2 and 3 are only for the A stream.

So if my daughter gets, say a 4c in Maths she is then in the B stream for every subject for 5 years, but if she gets a 5C she will be in the A stream.

I know this sounds implausible but it is true, although the secondary has failed its Ofsted so we can only hope they get a change of management.

Dovebird:
What do you mean by 'so so concerned'?

No one is - but plenty of people have some concerns over some part of the process, educational purpose, things which may be dependent on the results or their child's response. No-one has their 'knickers in a twist' - it is a discussion.

If there is one person you have identified as being more concerned than you understand and they haven't given a reason you understand, then ask them by name.

Well said everyone for sticking up for our lovely thread.. .
It has been a really interesting one and I am sure I am not the only one to say it's been a good laugh !!! I have really enjoyed "chatting" to you this week ...Off now to do a whole weeks worth of housework ha ha !

Dovebird: I am struggling to understand how a parent of a child (or had a child) in year 6, who has ever been through SATS, DOESN'T understand a public discussion on this very subject.

We are of a group of parents chatting and exchanging stories on how it's affecting our children.

The only way I can comprehend is you are not a parent?

BrigitBigKnickers Do you know of a non-PDF sample available to look at?? I'll be your best friend!

I didn't check what the link was that she gave you, but freepastpapers has them.

Same link simbo. Thanks anyway.

Anyone else know??

And on the subject of our concern for our dc, it is a matter of their own self-esteem. It is wonderful that they want to do well, because we don't want the child that couldn't care less, but that means that they sometimes get themselves disproportionately upset about these exams if they feel that they have not done as well as they know they can (like my ds). And because he is still my baby I want to take his pain for him. Being on here and getting the heads up on how the tests seem to have gone helps me to manage my boy.

Writing next week for us. Even though I know what the topic is (assuming it is the same for us as for others) I won't be telling him. Nit surenit would help anyway.

What about emaths? They have the ordjnary level papers.

simbo..I am not stalking you but we just seem to be on the same two threads at the same time !!!

I thought and have been saying that ds is taking l6 maths on tues because his teacher told me he would be at parents evening..but now something is bugging me.

I had not been able to ask teacher bbut spotted HT yesterdey and asked her.
she said she didn't as MRx had to check results to make sure he had got L4 and L5 in sats first ....He has been L5 since sept and regulaly gets 100% in practice

I apprieciate some nerves will have been involved in the real tests but i doubt that to drop to a 4 !!

Anyhow If he was doing them for real he should have been "registered" by now surely ?

HT mentioned something about downloading them so I wounder if that means they will just do them for "fun to see if he would of got ......

HT made me out to be pushy mum but I think he/we need to know if it is all over !!!!

Sorry long post

As far as I know all children have to be registered for the L6 papers. I have seen varying accounts of the cut off date for this. Maybe someone else can confirm?

The teachers are not officially allowed to check the papers before sending them off. I know that ours hasn't, and given that my ds made some real howlers yesterday, somehow managing not to understand the questions - probably didn't read them properly, he could have slipped below L5 if the thresholds have moved enough.

As there is no way to know he'll just have to get on with next week's torment even though he could lose his L6 award based on this week's tests.

We haven't done the writing yet, so it is going to be a busy week.

Thanks Simo---forgot to reply as I was looking on other thread

Doubt if anyone is doing Enlish as they are on trip on Monday... Do they all have to be done on the designated days like last week ??

Don't know. Perhaps they can do them later if they are all on the same trip, but then we'll all have mentioned it on here...

He is deffo not doing English L5b but hates it ..hates it (L5b.... would love to know what he could achieve if he liked it !!)Was never down for it and will jiust heve to wait for Tuesday..!

The L6 papers also have to be taken on designated days, so reading on Mon and maths on Tue but they can be taken anytime 7am to 7 pm apparently. As I posted up-thread, DDs class have their Yr6 residential next week and the few doing the L6 were going to do the reading early before they left but the papers didn't arrive today so they will have to do it while away, just as they have to do for the maths - bit crazy!

Ampre

Yes you are right, they do measure different and seem to be constantly checking up on progress, which I personally think is a good thing. In her old state school she had never had a spelling test at all by the end of Year 1, she had no idea how to 'learn' something to remember it, it was so laid back and she has risen to the occassion and really enjoys the competitive side and taking responsbility.

Today she got 11.5 /12 for her spelling and dictation (short sentences including her spelling words and punctuation), was was cross because she lost a mark for 'ate', putting 'eight'! However, she was so proud, it does wonders for confidence and self esteem. We were pretty pleased too.

I would be quite happy if she does do Sats, I agree with you, children need to be stretched and most do seem to want that chance to show what they know.

SeaHouses the system you describe for your secondary sound ludicrous!
I hope it changes. I don't see the logic of being penalised for every subject because you have difficulty in Maths. Ridiculous. Need to get on board of governors and fight it from within. Can still create a fuss anyway. [Not neutral on this as was crap at maths at school but did not mean 'punished' in other subjects].

I have to say Seahorses school system is a reason my DC wouldn't go to such a school. I did choose a school with a more flexible system over one which was more rigid (but never as rigid as that).
I would have tried to go private or HE in preference to that kind of rigidity. The best local schools all admit that some primary school's pupils tend to "over perform at SAT" compared to those from other primaries.

As a (trainee) teacher I would say that streaming in secondary is a very good system when done well.

It works much better than having 2 mixed ability populations (and therefore very broad ability groups within each population).

However it populations should be set more broadly than maths (english should certainly be factored in as literacy ability affects access to many other subjects). There should also be the ability to move between populations at the end of each year in KS3 and at the very least at the beginning of KS4.

It also works better if it is viewed that there is a top set in each population - whilst recognising that the actual ability may be different rather than viewing it as a continuum of sets across the populations.

So I would say - streaming can work v well for the children, but concede that there are big flaws with the detail and execution in seahorses school.

I am fundamentally opposed to streaming at such an early age. It is completely opposite to how a comprehensive system is supposed to work. It's like going back to a grammar vs secondary modern system where children have any room for advancement curtailed at 11 years old. My children all have spiky profiles, as well, and are all very good at maths and science but nowhere near as good at English, RE, History etc. What stream should they be in? I also managed to avoid the local school that streams across all subjects during the first term of Y7.

HauntedLittleLunatic, streaming seems to work very well for the convenience of the teachers and timetabling, but how exactly does it benefit children? Writing them off at 11? No opportunity for late developers (often most boys) or those with very spiky abilities. There will equally be many pupils for whom maths is a real difficulty but who can excel in arts subjects. Giving the children the chance to move streams at KS4 will mean many losing their friendship groups established over the last 3 years. But that obviously doesn't matter.

Depending on the size of school it may be essential to split the year for timetabling.

I have worked in a school which streams and in a school that doesn't. I found that in the former the range of abilities in each group was much more fine tuned and therefore it is (admittedly for the teacher) easier to cater to the needs of all pupils and imo if it is easier for the teacher to do it is more likely (rightly or wrongly) to be acheived and therefore benefit the pupil.

Even within the streams it is often only the maths English and science which is set so other subjects still have a broad mix from within the streamed population.

It is also a fair point that streaming is not necessarily a good thing from yr7.
In all systems there will be pupils that are disadvantage. In a school with no streaming imo that is the top and bottom of the cohort. In a school with streaming hhat is the middle of the cohort that sit on the boundary.

Irrespective of the system a good school should be capable of minimising these disadvantages.

Incidently - as a parent I also prefer the streamed model at secondary but one which has some flexibility.

The secondary school I chose has 8 form entry, and is split in two equal halves. There are 4 sets in every subject, with only the humanities set together. I can't see how four sets aren't enough for a good teacher to be able to cater for that range of abilities. My DS1 is in set 1 for maths and science and set 3 for French, History etc. He is the best in his set for maths, so not just in set 1, either.

So if your fantastic system doesn't bother setting for anything but English and maths, and has mixed ability for all other subjects, how is that 'fine tuned?'

You are not convincing me.

School I have chosen streams every subject separately, and they can move between streams every half term, because all of Y7 do maths at the same time......

And they don't stream based on KS2 SATs.....

Hopefully it will work for DS.