Unathorised Absence

[MrsFruitcake]

I know this is a thorny topic on MN and I'm liable to be flamed but I genuinely need some real advice.

I work frontline NHS and have had problems getting time off work during the school summer holidays this year. DH has his own business which isn't doing great and we managed to find a great deal on a holiday to France - basically, it's £600 less to go end of June than 1st week of school hols in July. We foolishly booked it, I filled in a form at DDs school asking permission to take her out for 5 days and thought no more of it.

On Thursday, a letter came home with her stating that as she's had 9 days leave in September 2010 (also for a family holiday), permission would not be granted.

Called travel company and they want £700 extra, which we don't have. We paid £400 for 9 days (4 of which are weekend days). School made no mention of SATs in the letter and attendance was the only thing they got pulled up on at their last 'Outstanding' ofsted report.

My question is - what will likely happen if we take her anyway - the letter makes it clear that this will be unauthorised absence and we could be liable to prosecution.

I think we'll probably have to cancel, and we'll lose the money paid.

Any advice? If you got this far, then thanks.

"vintageteacups Sun 01-May-11 14:45:33
goodegg I meant that the content of what they miss, whatever the reason for ebing away for 5 days, will be the same. So if they miss fractions on a monday, phonics on a tuesday, dance on a wednesday etc, they'll still miss those things whether they are on holiday or at home ill."

But your child is going to be, on average, sick for the same number of days per year, each year. If you take them out, you are increasing their overall "days off" by that number.

I hpe the people on here who have such a low view of state education (especially the person who said to ask for the lesson plans - "just a load of videos") either home ed or educate their DCs in a private school where the curriculum meets their requirements. If not - why choose to send your DCs to something which is a huge waste of time? Would some people just prefer daycare for their older children?

If her attendance has not slipped below 80% (including any sickness) then it won't be 'liable to prosecution' IMO - although the threat can be there - they can try to fine you but as that's £50 you're best off financially taking it on the chin

the UA only affects the school

IME they do nothing in the last week of school beyond trips, videos etc anyway

I'm going to complain to my head as we never do trips or videos in the last week!!.[sulk]

But the OP is planning to go away last week of June rather than last week of term.

Year 2 results are based on teacher assessment - the tests are only a small part of it. And learning doesn't stop once you have met the target. DS is in year 2 and predicted to get level 3s but that doesn't mean his teachers will stop teaching him. Or at least having met them quite a lot it doesn't appear that way :)

I probably should stop posting here but it is one of the few things I have very strong feelings about.

I also have rarely seen trips happening in the last week of term. Teachers are too worn out.

"You as the parents are legally responsible for ensuring your child is in school".

No you are not. You are legally responsible to ensure your child receives an education. You can withdraw a child from formal schooling if you so wish.

I would go for the holiday and enjoy it.

Emy - that's right you can withdraw the child at any time.

but the school then has no obligation to hold a place for you once you do this.

go on you holiday. I would phone in sick.

An education needs structure, you can't just dip in and out. Yes you can set up Home Ed or something, but as long as your child is in school, you do have a legal responsibility to make sure they attend unless they are ill.

emy72 yes the OP can remove their child from the school role if they wish but it's a bit of a radical step as there is no guarantee that the place will still be there after the holiday
otherwise if they wish to keep the child on the role Under Section 444 of the 1996 Education Act, it is the parent's responsibility to make sure that their child attends school regularly and is on time.

Funny how then, that private schools generally have better results and "where loads of parents do it." as goodegg pointed out.

mrz just wondering if this bit:
'Under Section 444 of the 1996 Education Act, it is the parent's responsibility to make sure that their child attends school regularly...' is how it is written because if it is, then what do they explain counts as regularly?

I don't think it is that common in private schools (certainly not in this area according to friends) simply because if you pay for a service for x number of weeks (and remember private schools generally have longer holidays ) parents are loath to waste fees for a weeks holiday.

Regularly means every school session vintageteecups

We also never do trips and videos in last weeks. Maybe on the last day, the children are allowed to take board games in to play with. And I think they watch a film in the afternoon. But only on the last day.

The rest of the final weeks of the term are still spent business as usual, learning, being taught. Also they have several opportunities to get to know their new class teacher - visiting their new classroom and so on.

I am amazed that anyone would expect the school to be happy about a child having a 2 week holiday in September during term time and a further 5 days off at end of June. Regardless of whether is SATS year or not. WOuld never take dcs out in September anyway - v. important settling in period.

And whether your dd has already met targets or not ... well that makes no odds IMO. It doesn't mean there's nothing left to achieve.

I think parents are terribly unfair to schools where increasingly their overall 'performance' is judged on attendance stats.

Is that in your eyes mrz? Is that what the act says?

No it is in the eyes of the law vintageteacups

pooka I don't understand what you mean in your last sentence? Do you mean because a school's performance is increasingly based on attendence, parents are unfair?

Surely, the system is completeley way off the mark if a school's preformance is judged by attendence?

Surely it should be about what children are being taught and what has been learnt?

Well surely if the act doesn't state exactly how regularly, then it could be every day, once a week, once a month etc?

The law states every day vintageteacups not once a week not once a month but every session unless
The child shall not be taken to have failed to attend regularly at the school by reason of his absence from the school?(a)with leave,(b)at any time when he was prevented from attending by reason of sickness or any unavoidable cause
leave has been refused in the OPs case ...

Ok vintage do you think OP is being perfectly reasonable then in having taken her child out of school for 2 weeks at the start of the year, then booking another week off without consulting the school?

I feel there are starting to be lots of straw man arguments on this thread which detract from the obvious unreasonableness of the OP.

I'm not even going to respond to your ridiculous notion that private schools generally get better results therefore don't mind students missing lots of lessons because I have taught in the private sector and it's just as much of a pita there only if you explain to parents why it's a problem, they threaten to remove the children who're paying your wages. You are getting the politics of private education massively wrong if you think in any way that parents taking students out for a fortnight skiing in March is beneficial to students' results. Causality, look it up.

I think most schools authorise 10 days per year (some more graciously than others) but it is the fact the OP has already had a 10 day family holiday and is now asking for a second that is the problem.

You really do have it in for me, don't you Goodegg?

Vintageteacups

What I meant was that in the op she referred to attendance being the only thing the school was pulled up on in ofsted. Like it or not (and I personally think is ridiculous) schools are being inspected and rated poorly if attendance is low. This is even more pertinent now than was for inspections even 2 or 3 years ago.

Patents value and appreciate schools having good ofsteds (again not something I necessarily agree with). But then to undermine the school's efforts by taking unauthorised leave having already had 9 days authorised absence is I think unfair and unsupportive.

My children are at a school with a not especially good ofsted despite it being a fantastic school. The school suffers from being "satisfactory" in an area with several "good" or "outstanding" schools - is undersubscribed (good for my dcs because better child:teacher ratio but appalling financially for the school). Attendance is one of the things that was an issue and it is completely out of the control of the school and yet the school is still judged on it. And I suppose this is one of the reasons I feel parents do the schools educating their children a disservice in taking substantial erm-time absence. It is unsupportive in my opinion.