Unathorised Absence

[MrsFruitcake]

I know this is a thorny topic on MN and I'm liable to be flamed but I genuinely need some real advice.

I work frontline NHS and have had problems getting time off work during the school summer holidays this year. DH has his own business which isn't doing great and we managed to find a great deal on a holiday to France - basically, it's £600 less to go end of June than 1st week of school hols in July. We foolishly booked it, I filled in a form at DDs school asking permission to take her out for 5 days and thought no more of it.

On Thursday, a letter came home with her stating that as she's had 9 days leave in September 2010 (also for a family holiday), permission would not be granted.

Called travel company and they want £700 extra, which we don't have. We paid £400 for 9 days (4 of which are weekend days). School made no mention of SATs in the letter and attendance was the only thing they got pulled up on at their last 'Outstanding' ofsted report.

My question is - what will likely happen if we take her anyway - the letter makes it clear that this will be unauthorised absence and we could be liable to prosecution.

I think we'll probably have to cancel, and we'll lose the money paid.

Any advice? If you got this far, then thanks.

Oh just go! It's not ideal, and you probably shouldn't have booked it (although the September one was THE WORST time to pick)but there's no point in chucking away the £400 you've alredy spent. I would predict it's highly unlikely anything official will be followed up.

WhiteBumOfTheMountain I'm afraid they can call you a "liar" and ask you to provide proof of illness which as the OP has asked for and been refused permission would probably happen.

What did you realistically expect to happen given that you had already been away term time? Your sense of entitlement is overwhemling.

Our school wont authorise any term time absence unless for bereavement or very exceptional circumstances so you were lucky to get one holiday authorised anyway.

Given its disrupting your daughters education again, your husbands business is not doing well I would have thought the last thing you would be planning is a holiday.

I would go, depending on where my child was in school. If about to take SATs then I wouldn't do it. I've never heard the £1000 figure that was quoted - as far as I underdtand it's £50 per parent per child. Prosecution hardly ever happens. I definitely wouldn't fake illness though - that's sending a bad message to the child as she may have to lie about it and that's not good. You know your daughter best - if I didn't feel my child would suffer then I'd take her out but write a polite note explaining why to the Head. Depending on the age of the child I disagree that it will give them a sense of entitlement - my DD wouldn't have a clue how many days she's allowed off or how many she's taken... she wouldn't even know that you aren't supposed to have holidays in term time - on the odd occasion we've taken her out, she doesn't think "I'm special because I don't have to go to school today", she just thinks "I'm not going to school today...".

The sense of entitlement thing is because her friends will ask her why she wasn't in school, she'll explain she went on holiday, her friends quiz 'but how were you allowed not to go to school' and it becomes a learning experience for your child in that she is indeed special an different because most children have to go to school and are not allowed to go on holiday when they're meant to be in school. If the teacher becomes involved in the conversation, she has to explain that yes, x shouldn't really be going on holiday but it's a one-off. 'But she already had a holiday' etc etc.

She is being shown from an early age that it doesn't matter about what the teachers say about being on school, that it's possible to make the choice to not go.

It's more complicated than saving money and the child not missing many lessons.

really think people are being far too judgemental and thinking too much into things - young kids don't think in detail like adults do. The OP only asked what would happen legally not for a moral backlash - this is going way over the top! One boy in my DD reception class had 6 weeks off with illness in one go and was fine and is still in the top sets - think this is more about pleasing attendance figures than anything else - go and go guilt free!

i understand goodeggs point of view from a teacher but i can't imagine that other kids arent doing the same thing now and again so i imagine kids will be used to it?

Even if not, what you do with your own is up to you, the OP wasnt asking anyones opinion just advice on what would happen

why do you think there is an emphasis on good attendance figures though?
Surely from the school's POV it would be easier just to let people do what the hell they wanted - attendance must eb of value

The education welfare service issues penalty notices to parents if their child has 20 or more sessions of unauthorised absences in a 12 week period (a session means a morning or an afternoon). A penalty notice is: 1) a fine of £50 (if paid within 28 days) 2) a fine of £100 if paid after 28 days and before 42 days) and 3) if not paid, a prosecution in the magistrates court under section 444 of the Education Act 1996 with a maximum fine of £1,000 if found guilty.

as I said worse case scenario

Just in case anyone is confused 20 sessions is 10 full days absence

goodegg, I understand your point but we've been taking DD out on occasion ever since she started school and it's never been an issue for us.

I had a child last year who had approximately 70% attendance - whole range of dodgy reasons given, plus a fair few where no explanation was given at all. What was done about it by the authorities? Precisely nothing.

Our school doesn't authorise any leave whatsoever - they don't even allow time out for music exams, so count yourself lucky.
I have taken 4 days unauthorised leave this year - felt terribly guilty, but not so bad now!
Half a day's unauthorised leave was given last year after I lost my house/car keys and arrived with DD 2 hours late to school (even though I phoned to tell them!).
There has to be a happy balance somewhere, but I think 9 days is enough really.

DS's friend's parents have just been fined (£50 per parent) for taking their child out of school for 10 days to visit a very ill grandparent overseas - a "slightly" better reason than you have. So you should definitely prepare to be fined. 14 days off school in one school year for holidays does seem excessive. How much other time has she had off this year (for e.g. sickness)? Sounds like her attendance for this year will be pretty poor.

Clam my LA is prosecuting two families in my school so I guess it depends on where you live.

Take them, and demand a detailed lesson plan of everything they missed. Chances are it'll just be a load of videos anyway which will make the school look pretty stupid uffuffing about lost education time.

Attendance absolutely correlates with results at CATs, SATs, GCSEs and beyond, right up to earnings as an adult. I've been trying to google for some stats with no success. A Head of Year at the school I teach at did an excellent Powerpoint in an assembly to show students why they need to aim to be in school every day, showing the fall in results and career success with each 5% drop.

Since teachers aren't legally required to produce written lesson plan you are on a no winner there BJ.

BristolJim - demanding anything in this situation isn't going to help. IMHO.

I think the school is being arsey and that you should go.

If you told the school about all the half/full days they take watching movies at xmas and end of term/trips to places they don't actually need to go to etc, then that could add up to the extra 5 days you want to take.

I would just call the school on the first day, telling them that DD is ill and won't be at school. They cannot prove she isn't.

Going on holiday is still education and for schools/the government to be this useless about it (when due to your job) is laughable.

For us, being in the forces, we can quite easily take them out - so how is that fair really??

For parents taking kids out duriing term time, they could set some homework related to what they'll be missing.

Have you not been allowed to take any leave during the school summer holidays? I ration it to allow all staff the opportunity to have some.

I take DD out of school for one week every Jan to go skiing, so I do fully understand why parents do it. We'd never be able to afford to ski otherwise.

But I wouldn't take her out of school for another week, let alone another 2 weeks in the same year. So we can't generally afford to go anywhere in the summer so we camp instead (in the holidays).

I'm also NHS and know what a pita it is trying to get annual leave in holidays. Our ward allow everyone to book their main 2 weeks off first, then everyone gets time off in the summer. And you cna't have more than 2 weeks a/l in school holidays. So everyone gets a share.

But the way the school see it is you've had your holiday this year as they go on academic years. They'd probably be more ok about you having a holiday in Sept as its a different year but like someone else has said I'd have thought that was a more disruptive time in terms of what she'll be missing.

How old is she?

And also, I really don't see the difference in a family that is home schooling for 5 days and a family going on holiday, where they could take a home ed pack with them/lesson plans etc.

Look it's a legal requirement to ensure your child is in school! Why is there such a sense of us vs them when it comes to schools? They aren't 'being arsey' but fulfilling their legal requirement, as should you be.

Schools are much hotter on not playing 'a load of old videos' now I think than they used to be. I also think demanding lesson plans isn't likely to go down too well when the school has said they don't want her to be out anyway. No point causing friction if you can avoid it.

As an aside, we booked a holiday for the last week of the hols in France (mobile home/campsite thing, v cheap - 200 euros for a week's accommodation) because it seems the prices drop massively after Aug 26th - think French schools must go back earlier?