Unathorised Absence

[MrsFruitcake]

I know this is a thorny topic on MN and I'm liable to be flamed but I genuinely need some real advice.

I work frontline NHS and have had problems getting time off work during the school summer holidays this year. DH has his own business which isn't doing great and we managed to find a great deal on a holiday to France - basically, it's £600 less to go end of June than 1st week of school hols in July. We foolishly booked it, I filled in a form at DDs school asking permission to take her out for 5 days and thought no more of it.

On Thursday, a letter came home with her stating that as she's had 9 days leave in September 2010 (also for a family holiday), permission would not be granted.

Called travel company and they want £700 extra, which we don't have. We paid £400 for 9 days (4 of which are weekend days). School made no mention of SATs in the letter and attendance was the only thing they got pulled up on at their last 'Outstanding' ofsted report.

My question is - what will likely happen if we take her anyway - the letter makes it clear that this will be unauthorised absence and we could be liable to prosecution.

I think we'll probably have to cancel, and we'll lose the money paid.

Any advice? If you got this far, then thanks.

Yes, there are exceptions for travelling families. I doubt there are for oil-rig workers etc though, I don't know.

I think the point is communication with the school. They aren't unreasonable and are on the same team as the parents. Teachers can't be expected to provide lesson plans and teaching resources for parents who want to take their children on holiday in term-time. Rules are there to protect everyone. In the case of the OP, she has already taken her child out for 2 weeks at the most disruptive point of the year. Not all parents can make responsible decisions. The school allowed the first trip, and then the OP books another without checking with the school first!

The point about 5 days illness being the same as 5 days absence for a holiday - I'm not sure about this.

You're bringing your child down to the lowest expected level of attendance voluntarily rather than unavoidably - how can that be right?

Every LEA has a Travellers Education team whose job it is to ensure any school age child entering the authority area is educated
www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/Inclusion%20of%20Gypsy%20Roma.pdf

vintage I hope my DC learn quite a lot in York. Admittedly not dressed up as Tudors but just in an everyday way seeing as that's where we live.

I realise that isn't what you meant but felt like being slightly annoying :)

At DC's old school there was a basically zero holiday authorisation. This wasn't the case for forces families or an exceptional reason.

I sometimes wonder what parents would say if their child's teacher took a week off school so they could go away at a cheaper time. Imagine there would probably be elements of uproar.

Lawrie I would love to! I haven't been skiing before and would love to go. It is just too expensive in the school holidays, literally 3 times as much. DH has been twice without me

If your child attends school then you have a contract with that school (even if it's not a written contract, which it has been in my DC's state schools). In that contract it states that your child should always attend school unless not able to due to illness. I think most people will also find that their DC don't like being out of school as they have missed out on so much. That is my experience, anyway.

I think having teachers as parents and having briefly taught myself, the thought of going on holiday out of holiday time is completely alien to me.

goodegg I meant that the content of what they miss, whatever the reason for ebing away for 5 days, will be the same. So if they miss fractions on a monday, phonics on a tuesday, dance on a wednesday etc, they'll still miss those things whether they are on holiday or at home ill.

Yes, one is voluntary and the other is not but the outcome remains the same - the child misses 5 days.

lawriemarlow I wasn't implying they wouldn't learn much in York (I happen to love York) but I was implying that compared to a week in Paris (and what I would take the kids to see/do in Paris) would have far more educational impact (across many subjects) than the same time learning about tudors/romans/vikings whatever (across one or two subjects).

ICT: Use of internet for homework project and simulations of archaeological dig and quest game
Literacy: Writing Viking play, finding out definitions of Viking words, newspaper article on York and writing Kennings (lots more of course)
Numeracy: Time ? centuries etc.
Geography ? Mapwork, navigation
Science ? Materials that would survive
PSHCE ? Learning about and empathising with other cultures, time periods.
and of course History

Okay Mrz - I get the point.

And now do the same for a week in Paris, or any other country in fact.

I wasn't implying that a week in York was pointless, just that a week elsewhere with parents is just as educational.

Only if parents plan with a deep knowledge of teaching!

The low opinion of teachers and schools on MN is upsetting

Do you honestly think you'd do as good a job of teaching your DC as a qualified, experienced teacher? Why not just trust them rather than pretending a family holiday is anything other than what it is?

ICT - researching Paris using search engines
Literacy - writing to a french child (in french) in another school
Numeracy - working out Metro/airport timetables and using Euros
Geography - looking at how Paris uses arrondissements to separate distinct areas of the city and looking at traditional buildings in the old quarter and comparing them to la Defense.
Science - trip to La Geode
PSHCE - Learning about French culture and the cosmopolitan way of life in Paris
History - trips to Paris' most famous historical monuments - in particular, L'Arc de Triomphe.

A week anywhere on holiday greatly depends on activities parents organise
A week sitting around the pool or on the beach -
A week with knowledgeable parents and a packed itinerary will extend children's knowledge (if not necessarily enhance NC subjects)

Sorry to niggle but writing to a French child in French is MFL not Literacy

I agree goodegg that sitting on a beach for 2 weeks isn't as educating as a week looking at York history but I'm trying to explain that not parents see their children's education as purely that which they learn in school.

You only get one life - why not take opportunties to travel when you can?

Read Ducan Bannatyne's autobiography; you'll see what I mean.

you could go for keeping a diary or even sending a postcard to friends at school working.

lawriemarlow - I live in York also and am also a fan of AF - my curiosity is piqued in case I might know you already but I can't seem to PM you - can you me?

(sorry for hijack)

Mrs if it's in english and french, it could be MFL and literacy; especially if they write it in english first and then translate

Sorry, meant mrz

If you go on holiday during school holidays then you get the best of both worlds as you can have the educational experience on holiday and at school :)

JoanofArgos will certainly pm you. Don't think we know each other but maybe we should :)

vintageteacups if a child did that activity in school it would be MFL not literacy

Of course holidays can be a wonderfully educational experience. You'd struggle to find any teacher who'd disagree.

They can be taken in the 14 weeks children are not in school. The 38 weeks of school-based lessons are planned carefully, with progression, varied activities and assessment throughout the year.

You could take your child out during term-time and give them the most amazing experience, but it still wouldn't be a good thing for their overall progression in school. That isn't the school's fault - they plan p teach your child for 38 weeks in a class of @ 30, should they put the progression of everyone else on hold so your child doesn't miss anything?

If I signed up for 38 driving lessons for example, then didn't turn up for 5 of them, I'd expect the teacher to compact the teachig accordingly to allow for the time I missed. If he kept to his plan of what he was going to teach me, I'd spend several weeks pretty confused - if I ever caught up.

For me however the main point in this thread is the huge amount of time the OP wants to take her child out of school, and that she seems baffled that it's not seen as acceptable, and didn't talk to the school in advance! Also the sense of entitlement it will give her child and the sense of injustice and confusion amongst the class. It really isn't that common, except at private schools where loads of parents do it.

We are going to Brittany - and had already planned to do the WW2 tours in the area. DD has shown considerable interest in learning more about the war and the reasons for it and wants to see exactly why the Germans never made it into Britain.

DD is 7 - and will have finished her SATs by the time our holiday comes around.

I work as hospital admin, so the rules for leave are slightly different than they are for nurses etc - in fact, there are only two of us with school-age children but it hasn't stopped everyone else booking the school holidays off, which is why it's difficult - also, I haven't been in my present role for very long which also contributed to the situation.

Also meant to say that she has one day's sickness in the last academic year - and that was a bout of vomiting which came on on the Thursday evening and she was better by the following Monday.

She's also quite a long way ahead of herself in terms of the SATS assessments and we were told by her own teacher about at the last parent's evening in February that she has already reached the targets in both reading and writing and is very close to hitting the target for maths, and that was with 3 months still to go.