Unathorised Absence

[MrsFruitcake]

I know this is a thorny topic on MN and I'm liable to be flamed but I genuinely need some real advice.

I work frontline NHS and have had problems getting time off work during the school summer holidays this year. DH has his own business which isn't doing great and we managed to find a great deal on a holiday to France - basically, it's £600 less to go end of June than 1st week of school hols in July. We foolishly booked it, I filled in a form at DDs school asking permission to take her out for 5 days and thought no more of it.

On Thursday, a letter came home with her stating that as she's had 9 days leave in September 2010 (also for a family holiday), permission would not be granted.

Called travel company and they want £700 extra, which we don't have. We paid £400 for 9 days (4 of which are weekend days). School made no mention of SATs in the letter and attendance was the only thing they got pulled up on at their last 'Outstanding' ofsted report.

My question is - what will likely happen if we take her anyway - the letter makes it clear that this will be unauthorised absence and we could be liable to prosecution.

I think we'll probably have to cancel, and we'll lose the money paid.

Any advice? If you got this far, then thanks.

The difference is is that the home ed kid then doesn't go back to school after missing a week's worth of what the rest of the class have been doing. By the time they get back things have moved on and the whole class have moved onto a harder stage of division/fractions/whatever and your kid is sat there thinking what the fuck!

what's the difference then with the school taking them out for a primary school trip for 4 days (to do work that could be quite easily be done in class) and a family going to say Paris for 4/5 days, where they could learn about renaissance artists, how they engineered the Paris sewerage system, how the Metro works, listen to beautiful music played in the gardens, eat food from another country and speak French?

I would say the Paris holiday would teach them far more than a week in York learning dressing up as a Tudor.

vintageteacups if you want to add up all the half days my class has spent watching movies at xmas and end of term/trips to places they don't actually need to go you would reach the grand total of ZERO days

If the OP's child misses 3 weeks to go on holidays, that makes her attendance 92%. That is the lowest acceptable attendance, with 85-92% being monitored closely by school and EWO and below 85% being taken to court.

That's the legalities (for the county I teach in, it might vary) but it does affect her education too. If OP's child is ill, she will miss out further.

Well at our 'Outstanding' primary school, I could quite easily add up 5 days that weren't necessary; including the 3 days last week preparing for the school street party. When I quizzed the kids as to what they done, it equated to not a great lot'.

I think that two term-time holidays in one year is taking the piss.

If the OP's child had missed 5 days due to illness, the school couldn't say anything - they can't help being ill.

Vintage

"I would say the Paris holiday would teach them far more than a week in York learning dressing up as a Tudor."

Are you a qualified teacher then, with the knowledge and ability to decide what constitutes a good education?

The point is, we pay taxes to pay for people to be trained to understand and deliver a quality education, protected by law so that all students can access it. Schools have the ability to use their discretion to allow limited time out, which they have done in the OP's case, but no school would rightly allow 3 weeks out.

I don't think state ed provides a rounded education at all really.

What some see as a good education, doesn't necessarily mean that others will think the same.

Education means far more than sitting doing numeracy and literacy and science. There was a thread about this a few months back and most people on it were saying how unflexible schools/the system is.

Whilst I generally agree that the 10 days should be sufficient for any family, there may be circumstances where a couple of extra days could be agreed.

It's the same in my county goodegg.

I'm sure you are able to assess exactly what your children have learnt from "quizzing" them vintageteacups I'm afraid my two always said "nothing" or "usual writing and stuff".

I'm just saying goodegg that education can be so much more than simply education at school.

Mrz - dd is 9 and ds 6 so yes, I can can quite accurately assess what they've done.

I think you can probably learn a huge amount from organising a street party, depending how it is managed.

Vintage - unless you are a qualified teacher, and in addition have sat in observing in the classroom on the day in question you absolutely cannot accurately assess what they have done.

At 6 and 9 they cannot tell you in enough detail what they have done, nor indeed do they have the intellectual capability or maturity to reflect on their teaching.

What utter tosh.

Sorry but I don't do this asking the school for permission to take MY child out of school for whatever reason. I just tell them.

And BTW there is no legal obligation to send a child to school, just a legal obligation to ensure that your child is educated.

My children are considerably older and I couldn't ever get enough detail out of them to assess their learning

I agree that there is more to education than literacy, numeracy and science - the NC is actually pretty broad. I'm a Music specialist

Thing is that there are 14 weeks of the year when parents can plan and organise activities that they want for their child. It is rubbish that is so expensive to go for foreign holidays then, but the alternative of allowing parents to take students out whenever they fancy out of the 38 weeks of the year they are in school, would just be chaos.

The education system is far from perfect, but the best nance of it working is when parents support teachers and schools. The school in the OP's case are defending the child's statutory right to 38 weeks in school, when the school decide what is best.

As a teacher, I'm delighted to have 14 weeks off a year, even though it means I often can't afford to go abroad.

ModreB there is a slight proviso to that. If your child is registered to attend a school then Section 444 of the Education Act 1996 makes it an offence to fail to secure the regular attendance at that school.. The Act can be viewed here:

www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/ukpga_199 60056en27#pt6-ch2-pb1-l1g441

MordreB If your child is enrolled at a school you have a legal duty to ensure attendance at that school.

Home Ed is fine if that's the route you want to take, but you can't take your child out and HE them willy-nilly!

Schools often use 'alternative provision' or students whom it suits, like college days, part-time timetables and so on. It's hardly the same as a parent pulling their child out for a fortnights's cheap foreign holiday.

What about families where the father works on the oil rigs so cannot simply choose specific weeks during school holidays to take the family on holiday or parents who are serving on op tour for 6/9 months? For certain families, so why shouldn't other families get the time off too?

The thing is though - that although the reason may be different, the time lost at school is the same. 5 days off ill means the child will still not cover the 5 days worth of work that she would miss if she went to France for 5 days.

goodegg what about the travelling families who's children attend for a certain time and then take them out 'willy nilly' and are sent away with home ed packs and that's that until the same time next year?

Surely, if the parents can ensure that the children cover all of the work missed, what's the problem?

The school has the discretion to award 10 days authorised leave (more under special circumstances) in any school year so even if a parent works away there is still an opportunity for a two week family holiday each year. The OP has already had that 2 week holiday authorised leave granted.

and if the child has five days illness and five days holiday they have missed two blocks of work which they may struggle to catch up on or may have no difficulty ... I guess some parents don't want to risk their child struggling.