Private schools, wow what a difference! (Year 4)

[FedUpWithSchools]

Got very disillusioned with DS?s ?outstanding? primary. First alarm bells started to ring in year 3, when every single day he?ll bring a drawing or a robot made of cardboard or a car made of boxes, you get the picture while he hardly got any homework. I tried talking to his teacher about it, but she was always very reassuring and said he is doing fine. I am a foreigner, so was not so familiar with a UK education system and thought the teacher knows what she is doing. Then in year 4 I found out about sets. Apparently my son is in a middle set for everything. According to teacher, he got an ability to be in a top set in a different class, but because his class is overall ?exceptionally bright?, the top set is working at a level of year 5, or even sometimes year 6. My son complains that on days that they got math (and they don?t do math every day), bottom set gets to ?play? on PCs ? they do educational games, middle set gets work to do on their own, and the teacher sits with the top set (5 kids out of a class of 35) and teaches them. If my son or anybody else gets ?stuck? on their work, the teacher with just get very stressed and will tell him in a raised voice just to get on with his work or read a book or draw something if he is finished. Bottom set gets a ?special? teacher to work with them a few times a week during literacy and math lessons. Children never move between sets. Sometimes my son finishes his work quickly and asks to listen or join with the top set, but teacher always gets annoyed and sends him back to his table.

I had a parents meeting with the teacher a few weeks ago, and raised all my concerns. I am very worried about the amount of stuff he is learning at school, as the 11+ is looming and only the top 5 kids are getting sufficient tutoring to pass the exam. The teacher agreed with me, and hinted that it will benefit my son to get a tutor or even better a private school. So off we went to look for a private. And all I can say is wow! We visited 4 schools in total. Class sizes vary from 16 to 22; 2 schools were selective, another 2 are not. But all 4 of the schools had a grammar pass rate between 90% and 85%. My son?s school sends around 6 kids out of 70 each year, so 3 kids per class. In all private schools that we visited all kids are taught by the same teacher at the same level. They also sit on their own desks facing the teacher, not in groups. Children get books for each subject, so the parent knows exactly what is covered at school on each given day, and will be able to go over it at home if needed. There is also an hour of homework every day and in year 5 schools run ?summer schools? to coach for 11+ exams. Some schools also had longer days in year 5 to cover the material quicker and start preparing for 11+ earlier in the year.

To be honest, the difference of standards and attainment really shocked me. How do they manage to teach every single kid in a classroom to the same level when a state school claims its impossible? Why state school cant just teach all kids at the same level, with kids all sitting and listening to the teacher instead of sitting in groups around round tables, sometimes with their backs to the blackboard? I really don?t get it. We are moving our son next week to a new school, wish I knew about the differences earlier, feeling guilty now for denying him a proper education for so many years.

I hope so

He does his first assignment before dinner, then break for dinner and play with his sister then another assignment. Then I explain some stuff to him. He is very bright so usually gets it the first time. When we are finished he gets a bath, then reads in bed. Some days he does vr and nvr questions, he thinks it is fun and does not see it as a chore. We also got cards to build up his vocabulary, again he thinks it is a game, not a proper study.

where i live there's a huge wave of kids from private to state
parents learning to be savvy

Have you thought about subliminal education? Maybe send him to bed with times tables on a tape?

All I can say is
I know you mean well, but please think what you're doing to yourself and ds.

Unfortunately it is very competitive around here. My friend's 6 years old already got a tutor and does bond papers. Most kids from prep schools still see a tutor for at least a year before the exam.

Was joking about the tapes by the way.

I tutor in Kent and normally only tutor children for 9 - 12 months before 11 plus. I may do maths with children, but make it clear to parents and children that this is a totally different type of tutoring. Sometimes lack of confidence in maths is the only problem. I would never ever take a child for exam tutoring at 6.

Going, one of the reasons I got a tutor so early is to make sure he got a place for the next year, as most good tutors are overbooked and are hard to find. Not sure he really needs one but better to be safe than sorry. But I do agree, tutoring a 6 years old is insane, even I can see it, lol.

Fedup

What are you aiming for in the long run for your son?

I really would like to know ...

I went to a private school and got quite a good education - but most of my friends and my husband were educated in the state sector. Some of them did well at school - and some did not - but what I am really really sure of is that they all have their feet firmly planted on the ground and have done brilliantly at shaping interesting and enjoyable careers for themselves since leaving school.

I would say that ALL of my friends from my private school are either unhappy in their jobs or not working now at all - it was a girl's school.

I am visiting schools for my son at the moment and am really really impressed with what I see. They are all state schools.

They feel real and creative and full of energy in comparison to the dull and dry education that I received (and yes we had loads of extra curricular stuff too, but the education itself was DULL).

I suppose what I am trying to say is that there is more to life than top results.

People without great grades go on to have fulfilling lives and jobs.

I am just not sure what you are getting so stressed about.

I haven't read the whole thread but wanted to chip in as a head of department at a grammar school where we see a number of pupils who have been tutored to the entrance exam.

Please don't push your child to sit an exam for which he has to be tutored. If your child is naturally in a middle ability group, then probably he's going to at best struggle at a grammar school and at worse completely rebel and not get anywhere at all. If he has to be tutored intensively and do extra homework from the age of 6, then a grammar school just isn't the place for him and he'll be out of his depth from the beginning and probably throughout the next 7 (critical) years of his life. He will be constantly being compared and comparing himself to others who are doing better academically - it's soul destroying. I have seen many eating disorders, for example, result from this type of pressure to be better.

Do you really want to make him feel worthless during his teenage years? It's horrid and un-necessary. You just need to find a better state school and encourage him to enjoy some of this time where there is no pressure - it's the only childhood he's going to have.

Well excuse me, but my son was not tutored since age of 6, he was tutored for 3 weeks to learn some algebra that was not covered by his state school. Also I am not sure where you school is, but in our area all kids that get into grammar were tutored, some by parents some by tutor, but all get some kind of preparation. And for the tenth time, my son does not struggle at school, quite. The opposite. I just think he could do even better.

Ps pardon my horrible grammar, I am posting from my phone and predictable text always gets in the way.

FedUp

I would up on this thread if I were you.

Do what is best for your child and make it an enjoyable experience.

Good Luck

Posters are NOT saying your child is struggling at his current school, as you have said he is in the middle set. What they are asking is that if a child needs as much coaching to get a place at a selective school will they cope when the high levels of academic expectation kick in? Is he really bright enough to cope at the school or has he just been coached to pass the relevant exams, as there is a big difference. We are worried you are setting your child up for a miserable time where he struggles to cope in the NEW SCHOOL.

Thank you oli! Think that'll be the most reasonable thing to do. Good luck to everyone with their kids education.

I agree, a child who needs 2-3 hours of extra work each night to give him the chance to get into grammar school will surely struggle there?

When I was young and 3As at A-level was highly unusual rather than the apparent norm (At my grammr school the best A-level result in my year was AAB), I knew someone who won a highly-prized place at Oxford for which she needed AAA. She was bright and worked really really hard and got the grades - but she hated it there because the standard of work, as shown by what she had to do to get in there, was waaaay above her ability. It really was (may well not be now of course) a place for much higher-flyers than her - which she happily accepted, left and was very successful elsewhere.

A grammar school education is not the only worthwhile one OP; it would certainly not suit my DS1, and I have no illusions about that.

When does he play?

I hate to say it but if he is spending all his weekday evenings being tutored he will be at a disadvantage compared to the children who can spend hours developing their physical strength and imagination through play and outdoor pursuits.

If you are expecting him to "do well" in life, presumably what you are thinking of is either university or a successful business venture. Do be aware that British university studies are very much about independent thinking and self-motivation; students from other cultures who have been hothoused and drilled often struggle despite being enormously knowledgeable. So if this is a route your ds might want to go down, giving him enough time to develop his own imagination is essential.

We have these seemingly fixed ideas about ability, a 'middle ability' child will struggle at grammar school, an overly tutored child will also fail in time as they have been taught beyond their natural ability and so on so forth. Many, if not most, believe IQ is something set and fixed like your hair or eye colour and follows you around whichever subject area you address etc, etc. Cognitive science is evolving, it's possible to get better and improve in many areas due to brain plasticity etc.

Some parents effectively 'tutor' continually anyway, every time they interact with their child. They expand their child's vocabulary just by using rich and descriptive language when they talk to them, they turn the TV off and play games and read alongside their child. Their child begins to chose varied and challenging books at a comparatively early age, this positively influences their writing. Their writing wins praise from the teacher, a virtuous circle has been created. Was this child born a better writer than a child who is 'average' at writing and therefore not 11 plus material? Some parents may explain maths concepts continually, without even realising they are doing it. Excellent foundations are so being laid daily.

Most children can become bilingual if they have a parent that only speaks to them that language from birth or even later. This said at our primary those that are fluent French and English speakers early on are viewed as potentially gifted. They must be, surely? They've managed to learn all the KS1 expected concepts as well as mastering another language. Yet language is 'caught not taught' just as perhaps all that underpins children's learning might be?

At 11 plus time no one takes a test for diligence and self discipline yet it is these qualities you need to do well in exams, certainly beyond GCSE, perhaps almost as much as inherent 'brains' in some subjects more than others. I was able to do better than brilliant friends because I worked harder.

I grew up in one of those naturally tutoring families described by Cortina, but I think the reason it worked so well for us was because there was a healthy balance, a recognition that knowing about Greek architectural styles is a fine and life-enhancing thing, but so is swimming and playing chase.

My parents tutored non-stop simply because they couldn't help themselves, they had to talk about the things they loved (which were manifold). There was none of the anxiousness evinced by the OP, none of the feeling of "I have got to push because life is so competitive and my dcs must not be left behind or something dreadful might happen". And when one of their children turned out to be non-academic they accepted that too and he had a successful life elsewhere.

I want learning for my children, but I want it as a source of fun, not as a desperate attempt to do better than others.

Cortina - aren't you confusing ability with opportunity/skills?

My DD (6.4) is bilingual because she had the opportunity to become so, not because she is more able than a monolingual child. She now has an additional skill (albeit one that will require a lot of extra input, above and beyond that which a monolingual child will require), in order to become an adult "balanced bilingual".

Other children learn to ride horses, or play chess, or sing etc because they had the opportunity as much as anything else. Having more skills improves your chances of success in the world very significantly; it doesn't necessarily make you more intelligent.

Hi Bonsoir, I agree with you completely and you make a good point.

I was talking about how people make erroneous assumptions about IQ and ability, they don't generally look at family background or prior exposure and opportunities, such things are invisible. At our school proficiency in French & a certain IQ were required before a child was allowed to study German, those who were bilingual were seen as having more potential, etc. At our primary school now those who can write with some fluency at 6 or 7, those that can read and understand complex chapter books, those that can already manipulate numbers with ease are seen as being inherently brighter than those that can't. These are the children who are expected to get into the grammars at 11 and become the future high fliers. Others may rise up and overtake in time but generally I've found the child that starts ahead stays ahead. Everyone treats these children as if they are intelligent (consciously or subconsciously) and therefore they become so in this sense.

Interestingly there are some arguments that being bilingual increase IQ and being trilingual more so.

Cortina - I think the jury is out on whether being bi/plurilingual really makes you more intelligent. Certainly, many studies have identified additional skills (above and beyond "merely" being conversant in two or more languages at native-speaker standard) that bi/plurilinguals develop as a by-product of bi/plurilingualism. But are those skills "extra intelligence"?

I also, conceptually, prefer the idea of "extra skills" - seems more democratic/accessible, somehow!