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Private schools, wow what a difference! (Year 4)

365 replies

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 12:48

Got very disillusioned with DS?s ?outstanding? primary. First alarm bells started to ring in year 3, when every single day he?ll bring a drawing or a robot made of cardboard or a car made of boxes, you get the picture while he hardly got any homework. I tried talking to his teacher about it, but she was always very reassuring and said he is doing fine. I am a foreigner, so was not so familiar with a UK education system and thought the teacher knows what she is doing. Then in year 4 I found out about sets. Apparently my son is in a middle set for everything. According to teacher, he got an ability to be in a top set in a different class, but because his class is overall ?exceptionally bright?, the top set is working at a level of year 5, or even sometimes year 6. My son complains that on days that they got math (and they don?t do math every day), bottom set gets to ?play? on PCs ? they do educational games, middle set gets work to do on their own, and the teacher sits with the top set (5 kids out of a class of 35) and teaches them. If my son or anybody else gets ?stuck? on their work, the teacher with just get very stressed and will tell him in a raised voice just to get on with his work or read a book or draw something if he is finished. Bottom set gets a ?special? teacher to work with them a few times a week during literacy and math lessons. Children never move between sets. Sometimes my son finishes his work quickly and asks to listen or join with the top set, but teacher always gets annoyed and sends him back to his table.

I had a parents meeting with the teacher a few weeks ago, and raised all my concerns. I am very worried about the amount of stuff he is learning at school, as the 11+ is looming and only the top 5 kids are getting sufficient tutoring to pass the exam. The teacher agreed with me, and hinted that it will benefit my son to get a tutor or even better a private school. So off we went to look for a private. And all I can say is wow! We visited 4 schools in total. Class sizes vary from 16 to 22; 2 schools were selective, another 2 are not. But all 4 of the schools had a grammar pass rate between 90% and 85%. My son?s school sends around 6 kids out of 70 each year, so 3 kids per class. In all private schools that we visited all kids are taught by the same teacher at the same level. They also sit on their own desks facing the teacher, not in groups. Children get books for each subject, so the parent knows exactly what is covered at school on each given day, and will be able to go over it at home if needed. There is also an hour of homework every day and in year 5 schools run ?summer schools? to coach for 11+ exams. Some schools also had longer days in year 5 to cover the material quicker and start preparing for 11+ earlier in the year.

To be honest, the difference of standards and attainment really shocked me. How do they manage to teach every single kid in a classroom to the same level when a state school claims its impossible? Why state school cant just teach all kids at the same level, with kids all sitting and listening to the teacher instead of sitting in groups around round tables, sometimes with their backs to the blackboard? I really don?t get it. We are moving our son next week to a new school, wish I knew about the differences earlier, feeling guilty now for denying him a proper education for so many years.

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foxinsocks · 17/03/2011 13:25

loads of children in state schools don't apply to grammar schools

mine didn't - not because we wouldn't have got in but because I didn't want my children at some uber selective academic school tbh

Pagwatch · 17/03/2011 13:26

Of course it can happen at any school.

That is my point.

Would I prefer my child to be in the middle group at a good state or being badly bullied in a private.

The schools you have looked at probably are very good. But your postings -presenting private school as always and inevitably better for a child- is glib.

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:26

We are also getting a tutor and I am teaching him math and english about 2-3 hours a day (and more during the weekends) to catch up on what he missed while drawing Bart Simpson/knitting/doing pottery at his old school.

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FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:28

Pagwatch, I agree, but we made a huge research on schools we had visited, I talked to parents, asked on parental boards, looked at results, grilled the head masters, etc etc, so hoping we made a right choice. But of course I do understand that nothing is guaranteed in life.

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Pagwatch · 17/03/2011 13:28

I don't know any year threes in state schools doing Bart pictures every day.

It sounds as if you were unlucky with your primary.

Mangomargarita · 17/03/2011 13:29

Maybe it's different there. Not saying that you shouldn't be impressed with what you've seen Smile, just that me(and many of the parents at dd's private school] are very disillusioned. The school seems to be preparing them by making them do loads and loads of tests, rather than teaching them in an interesting/inspiring way(though ofcourse this may not be the same in the school you have chosen). Also the expectations and pressures are bigger as you are paying.

crunchbag · 17/03/2011 13:30

How likely is your ds to pass the exams if he is in the middle set? Also how much extra help would he need (on top of the 'normal' homework) to reach the higher standard? Be careful that your son is not going to be overwhelmed with work and will still have time to relax/play.

Pagwatch · 17/03/2011 13:31

I think you are just missing my point.

I have no doubt you researched. And hopefully you have found excellent schools.

But instead of posting " unhappy with state primary. So happy with new private schools". You are attempting to sweep your experience across every state and private school in the country.
Which is nonsense.

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:33

Crunchbag, to be honest I am so desperate, I canceled most of his after school activities and do study every single day, he is also banned from PC, TV, Ipod and DS. But he is quite mature for his age and want to achieve. But yes, he'll need a lot of tutoring to catch up and the school is prepared to assist us.

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crunchbag · 17/03/2011 13:34

Can I ask which country you are from? You seem to have a rather old fashioned strict approach regarding schooling, eg desk facing teacher, 'wasting time' doing pottery. (Just being curious :))

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:35

Pagwatch, I just compared the schools that I saw and was amased how much better the private school kids were attaining. Maybe it is true for just our area. My son's state primary is a very nice friendly school, but his education did suffer.

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FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:36

LOL crunchbag. Dont want to say, as it will "out" me. But yes, I do prefer the old fashioned structured education, with books, homeworks, and music :)

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JoanofArgos · 17/03/2011 13:37

I think if you're going to get annoyed that a child in Year 3 (so aged 7/8) is making things for homework etc, then you're going to get annoyed by lots of things about a state primary. Sounds like it was never going to work for you, really.

Fennel · 17/03/2011 13:37

I rather like my children getting to do art and pottery and making robots out of cardboard, and not getting much homework. That's how I think it should be aged 7 or so. There's lots of time to work hard and get good results at secondary age.

crunchbag · 17/03/2011 13:37

FedUp, I am feeling rather sorry for your son now.
How will you feel if he wouldn't pass the 11+ ?

Pagwatch · 17/03/2011 13:37

Most private school either select via academic ability. Or wealth. Or both.
It would be surprising if they did not perform better. They also have fewer children with sen.

I am surprised this is news to anyone.

ShirleyKnot · 17/03/2011 13:37
Hmm

over egged it on the last post I think

Bramshott · 17/03/2011 13:38

I think you are trying to generalise when you just can't.

To summaris:
You are unhappy with your DS's current school as his present teacher seems to favour those who are already high-achieving. You have seen some private schools that you are very happy with, and are in a position to pay for smaller classes, a more restricted intake and better resources this will afford your DS.

That's great. If you are easily able to pay, happy with what's on offer, and think it will give your DS a better chance of getting into a grammar school, then why not? But if you can't easily afford to pay, then don't discount other options such as talking to the school, moving your DS to another state school, or supplementing with private tutoring in any areas where he is struggling.

But to conclude from that that all state schools are bad, and all private schools are marvellous just doesn't stack up.

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:38

JoanofArgos, I was talking about year 4. He is finishing year 4 now, so a lot of pressure with 11+ exams. We got 5 grammars in our catchment area.

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belledechocchipcookie · 17/03/2011 13:38

It's luck. Not all private schools are good, not all state schools are bad. If you're lucky enough to have access to a great state primary then congratulations!!

I moved ds to a local primary a couple of years ago from a private school. In the private school (which wasn't near perfect which is why I moved him) the work was more to his ability. Academically he was thriving but could have been given harder work. The primary was a different story. The year 5 and 6 classes were combined and 'streamed' for maths and english, he was placed in the top group. He was given photocopied sheets most of the time, there was a hard side and a slightly easier side. As he'd finish before everyone else he'd get to help the teacher collect work Hmm That was the extent of differentiation. I pulled him out after a term and a half as he was being very badly bullied for being a 'geek' and placed him into a different private school.

Pagwatch · 17/03/2011 13:39

My dd is in a highly selective academic school and has spent the last three night practicing arse wiggling.
They are doing a dance for assembly.
Grin

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:42

Crunchbag, I was joking about disowning him, he he. Just kidding. We got an excellent secondary on our doorstep, so he'll have to go there if it all falls through.

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emy72 · 17/03/2011 13:45

Fedupwithschools, we are probably from the same country and used to a stricter discipline/high standards in the traditional sense. So I understand your frustrations 100%. However, I wanted to make some points which hopefully will help a bit;

My DD1 is in the top set of her local state primary and she doesn't get much attention at all - quite the opposite - and I do believe her education is suffering, in that she doesn't get stretched/is not progressing as well as she could be etc...at home though I have put more emphasis on things like playing the piano, as I do believe they help in many other ways.

I am not sure cancelling all sports/activities and putting so much pressure on your child is the answer, personally. You run the risk of switching him off completely. If he is reasonably bright, he should be able to catch up fairly reasonably without the need of so much stress.

I have friends with people at shiny beautiful and high achieving private schools and the part I dislike (lots to like too of course) is the amount of homework they get - often very uninspiring, ie lots and lots of sheets to fill out. Not sure of the value of that. My question is: in such small class sizes and one to one attention and long days, why do they need so much homework? It seems odd to me. You'd think at primary one should work a long day at school and then come home to relax - or maybe I have got this bit wrong and need to change it.

I know that my DD1 gets totally switched off if I put too much pressure on, so please be careful not to pile it on too much. And like the others' said, it might SEEM so much better at private schools but it isn't always the case, and if you do a search on here you'll see so many stories that bear witness to that. Good luck!!!!!

crunchbag · 17/03/2011 13:47

I didn't take the disowning comment serious :) I meant this post:
"Crunchbag, to be honest I am so desperate, I canceled most of his after school activities and do study every single day, he is also banned from PC, TV, Ipod and DS"

Such formal schooling and selective private schooling are an alien concept for me, I am also from a different country.

Anyway, good luck to you and you son.

JoanofArgos · 17/03/2011 13:49

OP: 'First alarm bells started to ring in year 3, when every single day he?ll bring a drawing or a robot made of cardboard or a car made of boxes, you get the picture while he hardly got any homework. I tried talking to his teacher about it, but she was always very reassuring and said he is doing fine'

Sorry, it's just when you said year 3, I thought you meant year 3. So he's finishing year 4 in March? Goodness - are your terms a bit different where you are?

If he's nine years old now, I see that you would be infinitely more concerned.

The majority of the kids at the private schools will be the ones who would have passed anyway, y'know. Heaven help your boy if he doesn't now though!