Private schools, wow what a difference! (Year 4)

[FedUpWithSchools]

Got very disillusioned with DS?s ?outstanding? primary. First alarm bells started to ring in year 3, when every single day he?ll bring a drawing or a robot made of cardboard or a car made of boxes, you get the picture while he hardly got any homework. I tried talking to his teacher about it, but she was always very reassuring and said he is doing fine. I am a foreigner, so was not so familiar with a UK education system and thought the teacher knows what she is doing. Then in year 4 I found out about sets. Apparently my son is in a middle set for everything. According to teacher, he got an ability to be in a top set in a different class, but because his class is overall ?exceptionally bright?, the top set is working at a level of year 5, or even sometimes year 6. My son complains that on days that they got math (and they don?t do math every day), bottom set gets to ?play? on PCs ? they do educational games, middle set gets work to do on their own, and the teacher sits with the top set (5 kids out of a class of 35) and teaches them. If my son or anybody else gets ?stuck? on their work, the teacher with just get very stressed and will tell him in a raised voice just to get on with his work or read a book or draw something if he is finished. Bottom set gets a ?special? teacher to work with them a few times a week during literacy and math lessons. Children never move between sets. Sometimes my son finishes his work quickly and asks to listen or join with the top set, but teacher always gets annoyed and sends him back to his table.

I had a parents meeting with the teacher a few weeks ago, and raised all my concerns. I am very worried about the amount of stuff he is learning at school, as the 11+ is looming and only the top 5 kids are getting sufficient tutoring to pass the exam. The teacher agreed with me, and hinted that it will benefit my son to get a tutor or even better a private school. So off we went to look for a private. And all I can say is wow! We visited 4 schools in total. Class sizes vary from 16 to 22; 2 schools were selective, another 2 are not. But all 4 of the schools had a grammar pass rate between 90% and 85%. My son?s school sends around 6 kids out of 70 each year, so 3 kids per class. In all private schools that we visited all kids are taught by the same teacher at the same level. They also sit on their own desks facing the teacher, not in groups. Children get books for each subject, so the parent knows exactly what is covered at school on each given day, and will be able to go over it at home if needed. There is also an hour of homework every day and in year 5 schools run ?summer schools? to coach for 11+ exams. Some schools also had longer days in year 5 to cover the material quicker and start preparing for 11+ earlier in the year.

To be honest, the difference of standards and attainment really shocked me. How do they manage to teach every single kid in a classroom to the same level when a state school claims its impossible? Why state school cant just teach all kids at the same level, with kids all sitting and listening to the teacher instead of sitting in groups around round tables, sometimes with their backs to the blackboard? I really don?t get it. We are moving our son next week to a new school, wish I knew about the differences earlier, feeling guilty now for denying him a proper education for so many years.

As I said the current school provides good education to the top set, and all the state schools in our catchment are lovely safe and happy places, so as long as she is in a top set I would not worry. Just will supplement a bit at home.

hope you are right about her ability compared to the cohort then....

what if there are 5 children who are more able than her in the class ...

Then we'll wait till year 3 and send her to a prep school.

a bad school is a bad school for all children

but the home/school partnership is everything and yours will be nonexistent. Isn't this likely to cause potential problems?

Not sure what are you trying to say mrz. All I want for my kids to reach the top of their potential. It did not happen with my son, but i've learnt from previous mistakes, going to question my daughter's progress and not blindly believe ofsted reports or teacher's julment regarding her abilities. As another teacher pointed on this thread, middle set is often left to its own devices. So as long as she is in a top set, she'll am ok.

But if you go to a diff school it might be the top table that aren't pushed and the middle table that is

well, good luck with that then....

Well to be honest I had not thought it through completely, only concentrating on the eldest right now, guess we'll cross the bridge when we'll come to it. I am planning to go back to work when the youngest starts school, so wont worry about paying the fees.

What I'm saying is that just because your daughter is more able than your son that doesn't change the school or correct the problems you have found yet you are willing to risk it

how can they be model making 24/7? they have to follow the national curriculum umm i believe languages inc english math science pe re/life skills,geography ,healthy living,IT, Dt so your saying they dont do these there too busy getting DC's making junk? if your experience is of this one school in this one area and you unfortunately looked up their OFSTED and results and though ooh that looks good but didnt chat to other parents neighbours and visit speaking to the HT ect , then come on here making sweeping statements why are you shocked people got very upset and flammed you ,, you throughout this thread have made yourself look ill informed and have a victorian attitude which you may not realise wve spent a long time trying to change and improve , if all schools taught in this blanket one size fits all attitude i promise you there would be very many more DC's failing as they were 50 years ago this way we have proof from years of research (the figures today compared to say the 1950s) really tell a tale in my mothers day for eg: she had dyslexia and was completely ignored and left school as they did in those days at 14 with no quals whatsoever because the teacher uded to hit her back of hand for getting things wrong and sent her to sit in the corner and she spent all her school life at the back of the class without help ...do we really want thses days to return because this is what would happen....

FedUpWithSchools only just managed to read the whole thread and want to say I am completely with you. Please do send your ds to the school you have chosen and see him thrive. Also from another country and shocked at the poor level of attainment at some primary schools in the UK. We are currently debating sending our eldest to private school and think about how to afford our baby's education when we come to it. Like you have said, you only get one shot at this!! Don't quite understand the antagonism on this thread... Surely everyone wants the best for their children? Or do some people really use their children to make some perverse point to show that British education is really not that bad? (Feel free to flame me but in a European comparison the UK does pretty badly... and no, I haven't got reference for that to hand)

they also do even more incredibly badly with pupils who have SN but then again in most european countries they hide them away and ignore them dont they, if you read properly what people have said you will see its was OP's original couple of sweeping statements that inflammed people my post from the previous page explaining my experience of the MC state school (middle and secondary) i my area have much better ofsted report and exam results than the private schools but m point wasnt even bothered to be replied to because the OP has had 1 bad experience why would you assume all schools are the same and as ive just said its silly to imply pupils spend all day making junk not doing maths english ect, i dont mind if she sends her Dcs to private school its nothing to do with anyone but please make sure your well informed,i thinks its the OP who doesnt understand WE ALL want to do our best for our DCs not just her.

Well, MAD talk about sweeping generalisations.... "in most european countries they hide them (SN) away and ignore them.."

well its unfortunaley NOT sweeping i speak from experience babyGiraffes

My siblings' experience of French education is that it is good for children of middling ability, but rubbish for children with an unusual learning profile (whether particularly gifted, with a learning disability, or worst of all, a mix of both, which the system seems totally incapable of dealing with). Obviously, their experience is limited to about 5 or 6 schools in the whole of France, but given their descriptions of the method of teaching in French state schools, I'm not surprised this was their experience. Rigid and unbending are words that spring to mind. Funnily enough, to avoid her child's uttery misery, one of my siblings is now having her child educated in the closest thing the French system gets to private schools - ie paying a small sum to get her child into a school that is not tied down to doing things the way other schools in France are rigidly obliged to do.

I therefore do not believe English primary schools are universally getting it so much more wrong than schools in at least one other European country...

Having been educated myself in a European country (although mind you, for primary we're talking late 70's early 80's ), I feel there was a 'herd' mentality in that the education system was designed for children who are all identical in ability and way of learning (not generalising to the whole of Europe as I don't know!).

You either kept up with teachers, text books, tests and periodic evaluations, or good luck to you, because no one was going to stop and check if everyone in the classroom was following and digesting what was being taught.

There most certainly was no differentiation of classroom work and homework and there was no extra support for struggling students.

The system was very retroactive. Children who failed their tests term in term out would end the academic year with a big massive FAIL having had no support program of any kind that would allow them to catch up. For most students in this category the result would be to repeat the academic year, ending up as the eldest student in a classroom where they would automatically be labelled as stupid. These students would usually live up to their labels because they had no intervention of any kind.

Bright students would, for the most part, coast, because they would also not be provided with work to stretch their capabilities as they would have to remain within the page within the chapter within the text book that the teacher was following at any particular point.

Now that I am a parent and my children are being educated in a state school in the UK, there are things I like and things I don't, as would be the case in any other country. However, I think they've got it right in the way they are trying to cater for all abilities, providing extra support to children who need it and stretching the more able. I have no idea if this is also happening in the country where I received my education, I hope it is, but the way I was when I was in primary sounds very much like the French system. The UK system is a positive one in my opinion, it's just that class sizes make it extramely hard to implement.

i agree completely rabbitstew and AllTheGoodOnesAreTaken this is my experience in europe as an adult, and also how it was when i was taught abroad for a time in canada in primary , as you say its unfortunate it cannot easily be implemented in large overflowing classes but as i found in a smaller school they were able to accomodate all very well

This is also my experience of french student teachers who have come here to train as modern foreign language teachers.

They have all been quite surprised by the difference in teaching methods and were able to adapt to a greater or lesser extent. I think they were surprised by the amount of work that was expected of them to ensure all were learning.

I have a Greek friend who expressed similar surprise

My DSs went to a village primary school and both their years got 100% of the children into the grammar school (although only 5 & 8 respectively in their year grup)
Stae schools ARE NOT ALLOWED to coach for 11+ which is how I know your post is a load of bollocks as is most of what your DS has told you.

And where did I say she is tutoring them specifically for for 11+? I said they get enough tutoring to pass it, as you supposedly got kids in a grammar school, so you should know that they sit exam at the start of year six, but the exam covers the whole ks2 material. So the kids from the top set will cover everything that is needed for exam unlike the middle and bottom sets. And if a village school got 6 students in a class it is much dashes to teach them than a class of 35.

I mean it is much easier to teach them, sorry posting from the phone.

I think there are a lot of misconceptions on this thread.

From what I've witnessed in state schools, it's the top set that aren't pushed enough. There are probably one or two children in each class that could zoom on further, but don't because they have met all targets, will get 3's in sats and look good on paper already.

The bottom sets are helped...it looks bad for a school to have too many children with low sats.

State schools will not help with 11+ preparation. That's down to the parents. So if you have found a school that sits the kids in rows, and teaches them all at the same level, and does very little craft activities, then fine, pay for it if that is what you want. Sounds like hell to me, and not what I would choose for my DC.

And no, don't take "Outstanding" as meaning that. I've sent my DC to a "satisfactory" school which is in fact fantastic IMO.