Private schools, wow what a difference! (Year 4)

[FedUpWithSchools]

Got very disillusioned with DS?s ?outstanding? primary. First alarm bells started to ring in year 3, when every single day he?ll bring a drawing or a robot made of cardboard or a car made of boxes, you get the picture while he hardly got any homework. I tried talking to his teacher about it, but she was always very reassuring and said he is doing fine. I am a foreigner, so was not so familiar with a UK education system and thought the teacher knows what she is doing. Then in year 4 I found out about sets. Apparently my son is in a middle set for everything. According to teacher, he got an ability to be in a top set in a different class, but because his class is overall ?exceptionally bright?, the top set is working at a level of year 5, or even sometimes year 6. My son complains that on days that they got math (and they don?t do math every day), bottom set gets to ?play? on PCs ? they do educational games, middle set gets work to do on their own, and the teacher sits with the top set (5 kids out of a class of 35) and teaches them. If my son or anybody else gets ?stuck? on their work, the teacher with just get very stressed and will tell him in a raised voice just to get on with his work or read a book or draw something if he is finished. Bottom set gets a ?special? teacher to work with them a few times a week during literacy and math lessons. Children never move between sets. Sometimes my son finishes his work quickly and asks to listen or join with the top set, but teacher always gets annoyed and sends him back to his table.

I had a parents meeting with the teacher a few weeks ago, and raised all my concerns. I am very worried about the amount of stuff he is learning at school, as the 11+ is looming and only the top 5 kids are getting sufficient tutoring to pass the exam. The teacher agreed with me, and hinted that it will benefit my son to get a tutor or even better a private school. So off we went to look for a private. And all I can say is wow! We visited 4 schools in total. Class sizes vary from 16 to 22; 2 schools were selective, another 2 are not. But all 4 of the schools had a grammar pass rate between 90% and 85%. My son?s school sends around 6 kids out of 70 each year, so 3 kids per class. In all private schools that we visited all kids are taught by the same teacher at the same level. They also sit on their own desks facing the teacher, not in groups. Children get books for each subject, so the parent knows exactly what is covered at school on each given day, and will be able to go over it at home if needed. There is also an hour of homework every day and in year 5 schools run ?summer schools? to coach for 11+ exams. Some schools also had longer days in year 5 to cover the material quicker and start preparing for 11+ earlier in the year.

To be honest, the difference of standards and attainment really shocked me. How do they manage to teach every single kid in a classroom to the same level when a state school claims its impossible? Why state school cant just teach all kids at the same level, with kids all sitting and listening to the teacher instead of sitting in groups around round tables, sometimes with their backs to the blackboard? I really don?t get it. We are moving our son next week to a new school, wish I knew about the differences earlier, feeling guilty now for denying him a proper education for so many years.

FedUpWithSchools,

I haven't read all the thread, but if your son needs private ed and private tutoring to pass the 11 plus then he shouldn't be going to grammar school.

Is it really doing yur son a favour to send him to a school where he will not be bright enough to keep up?

There is more to life than the 11 plus.

"Also, I think, fedup, you need to look at the semantics in 'all children have a chance to represent the school in sports'. Surely they will all 'have a chance' because they're pupils at the school! Whether they're good enough to get on the team is another matter."

Absolutely. Unless your child is one of the best, they won't be in a squad.

"At secondary level I think the gap is narrower. Perfectly possible to access an academic education from a state school "

That is nonsense really. It still depends on where you live as to just how possible it is to access a decent academic education from a state school.

One thing, the private school might have a pass rate of 90% but what total percentage of the pupils take it? My DDs old state primary had 60% of her year group pass the 11plus with 100% of the children taking the exam passing the test. Private schools can sometimes present the facts in a way that is open to misinterpretation.

Is this the same OP who burst into tears at Stockport station?

I've been to Stockport, it didn't make me cry but I prefer Sevenoaks.

I've been to Stockport station many times and it always reduces me to tears

I have only skimmed this thread but if these schools are gettting 80% and 90% pass rates to grammar schools then I am assuming you live in one of the handful of counties that is awash with grammar schools? Our local independent grammar crammer has a very high pass rate, but nothing like that high. Where I live only something like 2% - 5% get a place at grammar school anyway, and whilst it is disproportionately private school children, if 80% of pupils from a handful of schools were passing it would barely leave room for anyone else!

TBH if you live somewhere like Kent where Grammar places account for about a third of all places, and these private schools are operating an academic selection process anyway, then the figures are not especially surprising, and is not necessarily a reflection of how fantastic the school is. (and I say that as user of private schools.) What is important is not how many children in any one school get to grammar school, but what the value added for each individual child is, regardless of their starting point compared to their peers.

I think a lot of people misunderstood my post. I was comparing my son's particular school with the private school i've visited, not projecting my conclusions on all state schools. In fact my daughter is starting reception next year and we'll try another state school in our area and see how it goes. If she'll get into a top set i'll gladly leave her there.

Fellatio We got 5 grammar schools in our catchment area. They give priority to 3 postcodes, and then offer extra places to kids outside the catchment. So a child with a lower score from the area will be admited before a child with a very high score from outside.

Actually, I would be wondering why an academically selective private school doesn't get a pass rate closer to 100%

Just googled 11+ claims from a couple of local preps:

'more than 80% of children proceed to selective Grammar Schools' (80% of pupils in a 'non-selective' pre-prep/prep with a total of 140 children! Places are offered following a 'visit to the school and a meeting with the headmaster' .)

Another:
....'over 60% offered Grammar School places'...

A local self-confessed 'non-selective preparatory school'... 'attained an outstanding 86% pass rate in the 11+ examinations'. Quick flip over to the admissions arrangements gives the following info:....'informal assessment will be made to check that they will be comfortable with the standard of work at High March'.. previous schools may be asked for references....

You have to look further than the percentages.

Fedup...if a lot of people have misunderstood your posts then I would take a good look at your communications skills if I were you and also read back your posts in the light of what people have said.
I think you have made one or two sweeping statements here, starting with your title.

Apology accepted though.

I just wanted to talk about the difference in teaching methods and that I believe that a big proportion of kids in state schools could achieve much more. But got flamed straight away and naturally got a bit defencive.

your belief though, is not based on any formal training as far as I can tell and a tour around a private school your son has not actually started at.

Not much of a knowledge base to risk offending so many teachers and parents on here really.

but your son's state school isn't typical of all state schools just as the four private schools you have visited aren't typical of all private schools. My school certainly teaches whole classes of children not just groups and upper KS2 are taught by specialist teachers.

Mrz, that is why I am prepared to give another go to state schools with my daughter. But to be honest she is very bright so I am not as worried about her.

sorry but I find that very odd ...

please don't tell me you will hang at the teacher's shoulder and shout 'see!' at the slightest issue...because you would be better off starting her at the private school.

What about holiday co-ordination and school run issues?

Why do you find it odd? We also got a baby and it will be very costly to educate all three of them privately. We got a place in the school ds is leaving, but will try to get a place in a different school in our area.

School runs probably won't be an issue as the ones I've seen have earlier drop offs and later pick ups with after school activities etc.

sorry but a "bad" school is a "bad" school or are you assuming she will be on the table who are actually taught and not in one of the junk modelling groups?

My husband is going to drop ds at his new school as it is near his work and I am going to pick up DD and then drive and pick up ds. It is going to be a bit stressful come september..

yes, I'm afraid I'm with mrz...