Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Private schools, wow what a difference! (Year 4)

365 replies

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 12:48

Got very disillusioned with DS?s ?outstanding? primary. First alarm bells started to ring in year 3, when every single day he?ll bring a drawing or a robot made of cardboard or a car made of boxes, you get the picture while he hardly got any homework. I tried talking to his teacher about it, but she was always very reassuring and said he is doing fine. I am a foreigner, so was not so familiar with a UK education system and thought the teacher knows what she is doing. Then in year 4 I found out about sets. Apparently my son is in a middle set for everything. According to teacher, he got an ability to be in a top set in a different class, but because his class is overall ?exceptionally bright?, the top set is working at a level of year 5, or even sometimes year 6. My son complains that on days that they got math (and they don?t do math every day), bottom set gets to ?play? on PCs ? they do educational games, middle set gets work to do on their own, and the teacher sits with the top set (5 kids out of a class of 35) and teaches them. If my son or anybody else gets ?stuck? on their work, the teacher with just get very stressed and will tell him in a raised voice just to get on with his work or read a book or draw something if he is finished. Bottom set gets a ?special? teacher to work with them a few times a week during literacy and math lessons. Children never move between sets. Sometimes my son finishes his work quickly and asks to listen or join with the top set, but teacher always gets annoyed and sends him back to his table.

I had a parents meeting with the teacher a few weeks ago, and raised all my concerns. I am very worried about the amount of stuff he is learning at school, as the 11+ is looming and only the top 5 kids are getting sufficient tutoring to pass the exam. The teacher agreed with me, and hinted that it will benefit my son to get a tutor or even better a private school. So off we went to look for a private. And all I can say is wow! We visited 4 schools in total. Class sizes vary from 16 to 22; 2 schools were selective, another 2 are not. But all 4 of the schools had a grammar pass rate between 90% and 85%. My son?s school sends around 6 kids out of 70 each year, so 3 kids per class. In all private schools that we visited all kids are taught by the same teacher at the same level. They also sit on their own desks facing the teacher, not in groups. Children get books for each subject, so the parent knows exactly what is covered at school on each given day, and will be able to go over it at home if needed. There is also an hour of homework every day and in year 5 schools run ?summer schools? to coach for 11+ exams. Some schools also had longer days in year 5 to cover the material quicker and start preparing for 11+ earlier in the year.

To be honest, the difference of standards and attainment really shocked me. How do they manage to teach every single kid in a classroom to the same level when a state school claims its impossible? Why state school cant just teach all kids at the same level, with kids all sitting and listening to the teacher instead of sitting in groups around round tables, sometimes with their backs to the blackboard? I really don?t get it. We are moving our son next week to a new school, wish I knew about the differences earlier, feeling guilty now for denying him a proper education for so many years.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
mrz · 20/03/2011 19:12

It is unlikely that there are only 6 children in the class even if there are 6 in the year group the teacher will probably have a mixed age class which is the same as teaching a mixed ability class ...
I'm not sure why you think most of the children won't have covered the KS2 curriculum my expectation would be that able children would be working on KS3/Y7 not that others capable of getting to a grammar school would be at Y5 level ...

MADABOUTTHEBOY2000 · 20/03/2011 19:19

thats because the middle and lower sets are unlikely to pass but i agree easier to teach 6 than 30 therefore you would have to move to one such village school or pay privately so youve answered your OP

AllTheGoodOnesAreTaken · 20/03/2011 19:28

My DS is in year 2 and has been graded as level 3 even though he hasn't taken SATS yet. How do I know he's still being challenged for the rest of the academic year as he's already more than reached his target?

LynetteScavo · 20/03/2011 19:32

"as you supposedly got kids in a grammar school, so you should know that they sit exam at the start of year six, but the exam covers the whole ks2 material."

This is not true in my area...the 11+ test covers much more in mathematics than will have been taught to level 5 children in a state school.It has to; so many children reach a level 5 and many, many children are fighting for only a few places.

And middle set children should have covered the whole curriculum the end of Y6, so won't be that far behind. If their parents really think their middle set child should be going to a grammar school then do what every other parent who is desperate for their child to go to a grammar school does, including the children in the top sets, and independent schools does, and tutor out of school hours. You do realise you will need to do this, don't you, OP, especially as your DS is in the middle sets?

mrz · 20/03/2011 19:33

Look at the work he is doing
In year 2 the level reported is from teacher assessment of work produced day to day not from test results.

IndigoBell · 20/03/2011 19:36

Grammar schools round here don't test maths or english, they only test verbal and non verbal reasoning.

Have fun getting your child tutored for that.

(you better check the schools website to find out what they test. And you better get onto it. If he's going to sit the 11+ in Oct next year you'll probably be best to start tutoring now)

oldbatteryhen · 20/03/2011 19:36

Our state schools are allowed two formal 'tries' at the 11+. Teachers do give verbal reasoning exercises to familiarise them with the questions as a matter of course. (Our 11+ is all VR.)

Many, many, many parents get children tutored from an early age (often starting in Y3).

Some local state schools are loathe to take new pupils (for example, when children move from an infant school to junior school) if parents aren't going to get children tutored.

Our local paper prints 11+ results, and, my, can you spot the demographic differences!! Hmm

(Mind you, my ds went to Grammar and his Y13 got worse results than the top end of a local high school - particularly Oxbridge entrants. GS are only 'best' in name sometimes!)

FedUpWithSchools · 20/03/2011 19:43

As I already said my son got between two and three hours daily from me and DH, more during weekends and goes to tutor. Our grammar schools exams cover vr, nvr, maths and some ask for an essay. So yes, I am well aware of the requirements.

OP posts:
IndigoBell · 20/03/2011 19:50

Wait a minute. You've been tutoring him 2-3 hours a day, and he's only in the middle set, and you think he should go to a grammar school?

I'm absolutely gobsmacked. If he can't keep up with the demands of year 4 when he's not even in an academic school, how on earth do you think he will keep up with the higher years in an academic school?

2 hours 1:1 should cover way more than 6 hours of class time.

mrz · 20/03/2011 19:50
Shock
oldbatteryhen · 20/03/2011 19:55

How can you fit in 2-3 hours daily AND a tutor?
Honestly, GS aren't always worth it Fedup. My ds realised he liked art, and was not supported well be his GS. Children are not necessarily going to grow up liking 'academic' subjects, and they are also not necessarily going to grow up fulfilling your expectations of them!!

Personally I would love ds to have grown up with a vocation to be an eminent brain surgeon; however, he has decided (having found his own strengths, with little support at GS) to go the art route which will be much more rocky and full of disappointments.

FedUpWithSchools · 20/03/2011 19:55

I've been doing it since I found out he is In the middle set, and also the new schools gave me some material that should be covered.

OP posts:
FedUpWithSchools · 20/03/2011 20:01

Well, it was only three weeks since I found out. He goes to tutor on monday after school, then does an hour of maths with his dad, some bonds books. Rest of the week I give him assignments, each takes about 40 min to complete, then I go over the stuff he got wrong and explain the next subject . I have to admit, I am very tired there days.

OP posts:
magdalene · 20/03/2011 20:06

Fedupwithschools is giving her son a chance that's all. If he doesn't pass then at least fedupwithschools can say that she gave him the opportunity. The secondary schools in her area might be dire for all we know.

MigratingCoconuts · 20/03/2011 20:07

I would imagine he is tired too. When does your son have time to wind down?? I am also Shock

everlong · 20/03/2011 20:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FedUpWithSchools · 20/03/2011 20:12

Thank you magdalene. This is exactly why I am doing it!

OP posts:
FedUpWithSchools · 20/03/2011 20:14

He wants to do it, he even takes his bond books to school and does them during the breaks. I dont think it is really possible to force a 9 year old to study that much unless he wants it himself.

OP posts:
magdalene · 20/03/2011 20:14

Sorry only managed to read rest of the thread. 2-3 hours a day is far too much. If he needs that amount of coaching perhaps grammar school is not for him.

oldbatteryhen · 20/03/2011 20:18

Have you thought about how he might feel if he doesn't pass, if you've set GS as the holy grail? We had a boy fail this year who'd been tutored for 3 years.

MigratingCoconuts · 20/03/2011 20:21

He wants to do it, he even takes his bond books to school and does them during the breaks

again, where's his down time? I'm beginning to feel a little too easy on my kids in believing they need to relax to keep their brains working Confused

FedUpWithSchools · 20/03/2011 20:43

He has a down time at school, lol. He reads a book in bed every evening and during the weekend we do usual family stuff like park, walks etc.

OP posts:
FedUpWithSchools · 20/03/2011 20:45

And too be honest I am not sure how much tutoring he does need, I do the maximum I can cram in.

OP posts:
seeker · 20/03/2011 20:48

I'm sorry, but it is INSANE to expect a year 4 child to do 2-3 hours extra work a day. And it is counter productive - he will get bored and resentfu. Children need time to do their own stuff - he doesn't. If he gets home from school at 4, and dinner takes about 45 minutes to an hour, it will be 8 o'clock and bed time by the time he has finished his extra work. You must be able to see this is not a good thing.

oldbatteryhen · 20/03/2011 20:53

So, your Y4 child is working 9-4 at school, and then for 2-3 hours per night, with more study at weekends? And he has downtime which is 'reading a book at bedtime'?

Does he play with friends? Does he have mates round to tea? Does he go to any (fun) clubs? Does he play on a wii? Does he watch TV?

fedup ..... Shock